Comments on: Suzuki Achieves World First With Burgman Fuel Cell Scooter (Bike Reports) (News) http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/ Motorcycle News, Editorials, Product Reviews and Bike Reviews Sat, 25 May 2013 16:14:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Commercial trucks http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-19228 Commercial trucks Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:09:16 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=14105#comment-19228 Yes I heard about Fuel cell motorcycle but don’t know when it s going to Lunch in US and other countries market. Intelligent Energy launches the world’s first purpose-built fuel-cell motorcycle Aside from the fact that it is run by a fuel cell called Core, it also produces low sound compared to the rest of the motorcycles. I read in one of the article that ,according to its designers, even its water-vapor emissions are drinkable because they are so clean. Yes I heard about Fuel cell motorcycle but don’t know when it s going to Lunch in US and other countries market. Intelligent Energy launches the world’s first purpose-built fuel-cell motorcycle Aside from the fact that it is run by a fuel cell called Core, it also produces low sound compared to the rest of the motorcycles. I read in one of the article that ,according to its designers, even its water-vapor emissions are drinkable because they are so clean.

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]]> By: Jeremy in TX http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-19072 Jeremy in TX Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:00:14 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=14105#comment-19072 CNG tanks take up quite a bit of space as well. A motorcycle or scooter running on CNG would have a range suitable for commuting, but not much else unless you think pontoons look good on a motorcycle. Hydrogen's appeal is obviously the lack of CO2 emissions which you would still have with CNG (albeit significantly reduced over gasoline). Plus, no one would be calling natural gas plentiful or cheap if even half of the cars in the US were burning it, much less the world. CNG tanks take up quite a bit of space as well. A motorcycle or scooter running on CNG would have a range suitable for commuting, but not much else unless you think pontoons look good on a motorcycle. Hydrogen’s appeal is obviously the lack of CO2 emissions which you would still have with CNG (albeit significantly reduced over gasoline). Plus, no one would be calling natural gas plentiful or cheap if even half of the cars in the US were burning it, much less the world.

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]]> By: MED http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-19035 MED Tue, 15 Mar 2011 23:26:59 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=14105#comment-19035 Tom, Dude - Have a glass of wine - Chill out Tom,
Dude – Have a glass of wine – Chill out

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]]> By: Average Guy http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-19003 Average Guy Tue, 15 Mar 2011 13:53:51 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=14105#comment-19003 Thats a lot of rambling to point out a mistake...and flabbergasted? who says that? Thats a lot of rambling to point out a mistake…and flabbergasted? who says that?

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]]> By: Tom Barber http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-18986 Tom Barber Tue, 15 Mar 2011 02:22:08 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=14105#comment-18986 Yes, fuel cells are not limited to hydrogen. I don't know if the improvement in efficiency is the same with other fuels as it is with hydrogen, but if fuel cells ever make it to large scale production for powering vehicles on the road, the fuel will almost certainly be either natural gas or else a petroleum-derived gas. It will need to be a fuel that is not prohibitively costly to obtain on a large scale, and a fuel with much greater molecular mass than hydrogen, so that a useful quantity of fuel can be contained in a tank of acceptable size. Yes, fuel cells are not limited to hydrogen. I don’t know if the improvement in efficiency is the same with other fuels as it is with hydrogen, but if fuel cells ever make it to large scale production for powering vehicles on the road, the fuel will almost certainly be either natural gas or else a petroleum-derived gas. It will need to be a fuel that is not prohibitively costly to obtain on a large scale, and a fuel with much greater molecular mass than hydrogen, so that a useful quantity of fuel can be contained in a tank of acceptable size.

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]]> By: mr_dirtrider http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-18975 mr_dirtrider Mon, 14 Mar 2011 23:15:05 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=14105#comment-18975 Not really. The big difference is charge time. It takes some time to charge a conventional battery. A hydrogen fuel cell just needs to be "filled up". Not really. The big difference is charge time. It takes some time to charge a conventional battery. A hydrogen fuel cell just needs to be “filled up”.

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]]> By: Norm G. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-18951 Norm G. Mon, 14 Mar 2011 17:34:12 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=14105#comment-18951 don't know much about this stuff, but i thought i heard propane and natural gas could also feed fuel cells. hydrogen is definitely off in the sweet by and by. thanks for the info tom. don’t know much about this stuff, but i thought i heard propane and natural gas could also feed fuel cells. hydrogen is definitely off in the sweet by and by. thanks for the info tom.

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]]> By: Wilson R http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-18892 Wilson R Sun, 13 Mar 2011 21:49:18 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=14105#comment-18892 You can buy fuel-cell power tools so this is not really new. Hope it works and I wish they would give us some hard data on this scooter. The way gas is going (up to $4 a gal. where I live) I hope that this is an affordable solution. You can buy fuel-cell power tools so this is not really new. Hope it works and I wish they would give us some hard data on this scooter. The way gas is going (up to $4 a gal. where I live) I hope that this is an affordable solution.

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]]> By: Tom Barber http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-18891 Tom Barber Sun, 13 Mar 2011 21:23:15 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=14105#comment-18891 The point is that even in the extreme case of a tank of liquid hydrogen, a humongous tank is needed to carry any appreciable amount of hydrogen. If the hydrogen is not fully compressed into liquid, the tank will carry even less. The point is that notwithstanding what they say about the range, in practical terms refilling the tank would be necessary perhaps ten times as often as what we take for granted. (As for liquid vs. highly compressed gas, it is apparent from the fact that tanks that hold liquid hydrogen at ambient temperature exist, that once it has been forced into the liquid phase, it will remain that way as long as you keep it adequately pressurized. It is evidently true that some very special methods are needed to get it into the liquid phase, but presumably less extraordinary means if it is only highly pressurized. The vapor pressure of liquid hydrogen at ambient temperature should indicate the amount of pressure required to keep it in liquid phase, but I'm too lazy right now to look that up. Regardless, if in fact the tank will keep the hydrogen in highly compressed gaseous state, the tank will hold much less hydrogen than it will hold in liquid phase, and the range will be even worse than what it would be in liquid phase, which will already be dismal. It all makes for interesting stuff to read about, but so did Jules Verne. But if we are seriously interested in a practical alternative to gasoline, we should be looking at compressed natural gas. It is readily abundant in North America, and there is already a robust, widespread pipeline distribution system throughout all urban areas. And existing gasoline engines can be converted to burn CNG. It makes so much sense that the only thing that does not make sense is why the conversion is not already underway on a massive scale throughout North America, and why instead people prefer to read pie-in-the-sky articles about hydrogen fuel cells. The point is that even in the extreme case of a tank of liquid hydrogen, a humongous tank is needed to carry any appreciable amount of hydrogen. If the hydrogen is not fully compressed into liquid, the tank will carry even less. The point is that notwithstanding what they say about the range, in practical terms refilling the tank would be necessary perhaps ten times as often as what we take for granted.

(As for liquid vs. highly compressed gas, it is apparent from the fact that tanks that hold liquid hydrogen at ambient temperature exist, that once it has been forced into the liquid phase, it will remain that way as long as you keep it adequately pressurized. It is evidently true that some very special methods are needed to get it into the liquid phase, but presumably less extraordinary means if it is only highly pressurized. The vapor pressure of liquid hydrogen at ambient temperature should indicate the amount of pressure required to keep it in liquid phase, but I’m too lazy right now to look that up. Regardless, if in fact the tank will keep the hydrogen in highly compressed gaseous state, the tank will hold much less hydrogen than it will hold in liquid phase, and the range will be even worse than what it would be in liquid phase, which will already be dismal.

It all makes for interesting stuff to read about, but so did Jules Verne. But if we are seriously interested in a practical alternative to gasoline, we should be looking at compressed natural gas. It is readily abundant in North America, and there is already a robust, widespread pipeline distribution system throughout all urban areas. And existing gasoline engines can be converted to burn CNG. It makes so much sense that the only thing that does not make sense is why the conversion is not already underway on a massive scale throughout North America, and why instead people prefer to read pie-in-the-sky articles about hydrogen fuel cells.

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]]> By: Tom Barber http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/suzuki-achieves-world-first-with-burgman-fuel-cell-scooter/comment-page-1/#comment-18890 Tom Barber Sun, 13 Mar 2011 21:08:23 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=14105#comment-18890 I'm flabbergasted. Do you really think it is that simple? Have you bothered to find out anything about where the hydrogen comes from? Hydrogen is not only the most abundant element on the planet, it is the most abundant element in the universe. But that doesn't mean diddly. The sun, for example, is an obvious source of hydrogen, so perhaps we can just send some tanker ships to the sun to scoop up a bunch of hydrogen and bring it back. The ship itself will of course be powered by the hydrogen. But obviously it isn't that easy. Then there is Jupiter, another source of a lot of hydrogen, and not nearly as hot as the sun. But it has a lot of gravity, and even though we built a landing module to land on the moon and then subsequently escape from the moon's gravity, that was a very difficult thing to do, and the solution involved using separate engines for landing and taking off, so that the engine that was used for landing could be left. We have yet to be able to solve the same problem for any planet, i.e., Mars, and there is no certainty that it will ever be solved. There is no certainty, in other words, that humans will ever travel to mars with the exception of the ones who don't want to return. The point of all of this is that (1.) not everything that can be imagined is possible, and (2.) the mere fact that hydrogen is there and we know it is there does not mean that it is free for the taking. I make these points because you evidently believe that everything that can be imagined can be done, and that when hydrogen is present, it is free for the taking. Things just aren't that simple. Sorry. I don't mean to be rude. But you wrote something in the guise that it was at least marginally intelligent, but it was not in the least bit intelligent. It implied that all that hydrogen is free for the taking. I’m flabbergasted. Do you really think it is that simple? Have you bothered to find out anything about where the hydrogen comes from? Hydrogen is not only the most abundant element on the planet, it is the most abundant element in the universe. But that doesn’t mean diddly. The sun, for example, is an obvious source of hydrogen, so perhaps we can just send some tanker ships to the sun to scoop up a bunch of hydrogen and bring it back. The ship itself will of course be powered by the hydrogen. But obviously it isn’t that easy. Then there is Jupiter, another source of a lot of hydrogen, and not nearly as hot as the sun. But it has a lot of gravity, and even though we built a landing module to land on the moon and then subsequently escape from the moon’s gravity, that was a very difficult thing to do, and the solution involved using separate engines for landing and taking off, so that the engine that was used for landing could be left. We have yet to be able to solve the same problem for any planet, i.e., Mars, and there is no certainty that it will ever be solved. There is no certainty, in other words, that humans will ever travel to mars with the exception of the ones who don’t want to return. The point of all of this is that (1.) not everything that can be imagined is possible, and (2.) the mere fact that hydrogen is there and we know it is there does not mean that it is free for the taking. I make these points because you evidently believe that everything that can be imagined can be done, and that when hydrogen is present, it is free for the taking. Things just aren’t that simple. Sorry. I don’t mean to be rude. But you wrote something in the guise that it was at least marginally intelligent, but it was not in the least bit intelligent. It implied that all that hydrogen is free for the taking.

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