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Yes, I have been to Leroy’s beautiful store in Ft. Smith. It was one of the prettiest Honda dealerships I ever saw. It had carpeting in the service department (!?). Glad to hear that you are a CL77 enthusiast…I had one too. I actually scrambled it against Triumph and BSA 650′s back in 1967 (being a 305cc it was thrown into the open class). I also rode it in enduros (rode the “Busted Piston” enduro in Potosi, MO the fall of 1966 with it).

Here is a funny story about Leroy that I think you will enjoy. It also ties to a story about Mr. Honda:

Leroy and Mr. Honda

An additional Leroy Winters story I had forgotten: In about 1965, Leroy rode a step-thru 50 (I think a C100) from his store in Ft. Smith, AR to Houston, TX. That is a distance of about 500 miles, one-way. He either did this as a publicity stunt, or it was just Leroy being Leroy.

As I recall, he overheard some customer on his showroom floor, make a disparaging remark about Hondas not being “real motorcycles”…only Japanese toys. So he decided to pick the smallest bike in our lineup to make his point. That would have been about 40 hours in the saddle, round-trip. Like I said in previous posts, he was little, but he was tough.

In some ways this reminds me of Mr. Honda getting furious when he heard the chairman of GM making this dismissive remark about the CVCC engine (after both Ford and Chrysler had bought the rights to it in the summer of 1973): “Well, I have looked at this design, and while it might work on some little toy motorcycle engine…I see no potential for it on one of our GM car engines.”

When Mr. Honda heard this, he bought a 1973 V8 Impala, air-freighted it to Japan, designed and cast a set of CVCC heads for the Chevy engine, tested it in our own emission labs, then flew the car back to the EPA’s facility in Ann Arbor, and had it tested by them…where it passed the stringent 1975 emissions requirements. You didn’t mess with the old man…

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Now that it is becoming more and more apparent that the 2-stroke engine will soon be extinct, and is headed for the museum (to be smiled at as some kind of oddity, and viewed similarly to a steam engine) I find myself a little saddened by this impending fate for this old engine design. This reaction on my part is a little surprising to me, as an avowed 2-stroke-hater. I have recently been thinking about the causes for this seemingly incongruous behavior on my part: not liking 2-strokes, but feeling a little sad that they are almost gone. (Although I’m sure the 4-stroke engine will be in the museum some day, too…but not in our lifetimes.)

I didn’t always have this dislike for 2-strokes, in fact my first motorcycle was a 2-stroke Sears “Allstate” (made by the Austrian maker Puch)…and I still use a 33 year old Lawn Boy 2-stroke mower every week (I love the smell of 2-stroke smoke mixed with freshly-cut grass). I also had several friends who rode 2-strokes that I enjoyed woods riding with in the falls and winters of the mid-60’s. The smell of 2-stroke smoke mixed with burning leaves still evokes strong memories of those days. I always found their “popcorn popper” sound somewhat amusing.

But then the 2-stroke stopped being comical and became threatening. The best I can tell, my dislike for 2-strokes goes back to the Honda-Yamaha wars of the 1960’s, with the 2-stroke / 4-stroke battle being played-out, both on American highways (the CB77 vs the YDS3) and on the GP tracks of Europe (Hon/Yam/Suz). In the summer of 1967, it became apparent that Honda was not going to be able to be competitive in the 1968 season, against the rapidly-developing 2-strokes of both Yamaha and Suzuki. This drove Honda to pull out of GP racing at the end of the ’67 season. I think that may be a large part of what embittered me against 2-strokes, since I so much enjoyed following Honda’s racing successes of that time…and those glory years of Honda 4-stroke dominance were cut short by a smelly, dirty 2-stroke that ran more on theory than apparent good design and common sense. (It’s like the old joke about a bumble-bee not being able to fly, based on the laws of physics…but the bee does not know it can’t fly, so it does fly. Well, the 2-stroke does not know it can’t run.)

I still could not fully embrace the 2-stroke, even when Honda had their own successful version of one in the 80’s and 90’s GP bikes. I am not really enthusiastic about current 4-stroke GP bikes, since they all pretty much sound like 2-strokes. Guess I am still just a refugee from the Norton Manx, BSA Goldstar, Honda RC166 and SOHC Honda 750 days…at least as far as engine sound goes.

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I have recently been reflecting on Honda’s spectacular entry into the U. S. market in the 1960’s, and some of the reasons for their fabulous success. Of course, the most obvious reason was the wonderful quality and innovative design of its motorcycles…offering them at unbelievably attractive prices was the final capper. The ability to offer these prices was in large part driven by a Yen at 360/$. Take today’s bike prices times 0.25 and think how many bikes we could still be selling at that price.

But I believe there were a couple of commonly overlooked advantages that Honda had when it entered this market in 1959, and on through the 60’s. The first is the Honda name…it was the least “Japanese-sounding” of all the big 4 makers from Japan. And while Japanese products are held in highest regard these days, their image was quite poor back then. The name “Honda” had a very neutral sound to it, and fell quite nicely on the American ear…as opposed to the grating sound of Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki. I can still recall derisive nicknames from that era applied by the public to all of those other makers, but I can’t recall one for Honda. Some riders even bought Hondas, not knowing that they were Japanese. When I worked the parts counter at a dealership in the late 60’s, I was completing a parts purchase with a customer, with his parts lying on the counter. He spotted a “Made in Japan” sticker on the parts box, and protested: “I don’t want to put any Japanese parts on my Honda”…it took some diplomacy to break the news to him about the origin of his entire bike. If this scenario happened once, you can bet it happened thousands of times across the country.

A second big advantage was the old 2-stroke/4-stroke battle, with Honda (being the only 4-stroke maker of the big 4) coming out the big winner. The sound of 2-strokes had the same grating effect on most American ears that the names Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki did. I can remember being somewhat attracted to both the Suzuki X-6 and the Yamaha YDS-2 in those days (due to their high performance) but I could not get past that 2-stroke sound. As the rest of the makers began bringing out their own 4-stroke models in the early 70’s, Honda lost a big advantage.

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I took special pride in being part of the original “GL1000 Road-Show” in the spring of 1975. The M/C division was looking for a way to launch this revolutionary new model in a new and dramatic way. I developed the concept of the “GL1000 Road-Show”, which I submitted to my Zone Manager, and my plan was adopted by top management. We launched the show in February 1975.

This was the initial introduction of the Gold Wing to the general public, at the dealership level. Each Sales Rep took a full-sized van (with a new GL1000 inside it) on the road and did back-to-back, one-day Open Houses at every one of his dealers. This is where the famous “Nickel-Trick” was first used (balancing a nickel on edge on the valve-cover of a GL1000 and bringing up the RPM to 4,000 or 5,000 before the nickel falls over…illustrating the extreme smoothness of the flat-4 engine). Customers were so amazed by this demonstration of smoothness, they thought I was using a “doctored nickel”…I would dispel their suspicion by asking them for a nickel from their own pocket, and repeating the balancing act. (It did help if the nickel was fairly new, with a good sharp, square edge)

I had 60 dealers in my district at that time, and I did one show a day for 60 days straight. (Fortunately I was single at that time) Several dealers had their highest one-day traffic count ever, during these one-day displays. I recall a very large crowd at one dealership, in the middle of a heavy February snowstorm.

Dealers of that vintage have never forgotten this innovative introduction of that important model. That was a much more innocent time, both in our industry and in our society as a whole; I do not believe it would be possible to create that much customer interest with such a promotion in today’s market. But it was a brilliant move by Honda in that time and place. Such bold, innovative actions were common in the M/C division of that era.

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Yes, I knew Dave Mungenast very well, and yes, I was privileged to be his rep for 6 years back in the 70′s. He was a tremendous motorcyclist, a good friend, and a very good man. I can still remember the first time I met him…it was the summer of 1969 and the CB750 had just come out. I worked for a Honda store in Columbia, Mo., and our shop had not yet received its first CB750. So one Saturday, some of the guys from the shop all decided to drive into St. Louis, because we had heard that St. Louis Honda had the first 750 in the area.

We arrived at St. Louis Honda and walked into their shop (which was on Gravois at that time) and met Dave in the showroom. About every 15 minutes, enough of a crowd of customers would build up in the showroom, that Dave would deem it was time to let them see and hear Honda’s amazing creation. He would walk them all back into the shop and fire up the 750, which was slightly elevated on one of the mechanic’s lifts…so the crowd could see it better. I can still hear that intoxicating 4-cylinder sound that I heard for the first time that day, and see the astonished looks on the faces of the folks crowded around the bike. It was a great piece of showmanship by Dave.
(I feel a little sad for the young guys coming-up today in our sport, because they will never have the electrifying experience that those of us had when seeing / hearing / riding our first CB750. Our sport (and society in general) has become so jaded and cynical, that no new model from any manufacturer will ever generate that kind of excitement again.)

Dave was such a good businessman, it is hard to believe he got his start changing tires for Bob Schultz, back at Bob’s old shop on St. Charles Rock Road. I don’t know if you ever got to meet Schultz, but he was also a big part of Motorcycle history in that time. We owe him a big debt for nurturing Mungenast into this business. Yes, I think you are right, he was an equally good auto dealer.

I was always impressed about how good he was with the Honda people from Japan. He was so thoughtful and patient with them when they would interview him about suggestions for future models. He did have a cycle ranch down south of St. Louis, and he was brought into the “inner circle” of Honda’s engineers that worked on the XL250 project. A lot of secret testing and development was done with Dave and the Japanese engineers at his private cycle ranch. It was an impressive display of his ability to earn the trust and respect of those engineers, considering Honda’s knee-jerk penchant for secrecy.

Another colorful and neat Honda enthusiast and dealer (who I was also a rep for) was Leroy Winters, of Fort Smith, Ark. He and Dave were also great friends. He was a little guy, but very wiry and strong, and a great rider on smaller motorcycles. I think he had a lot of success on Harley 165′s (Pacer and Scat?) riding enduros in the late 50’s and 60’s. He took a Honda SL125 to the Six Days in 1971 (I believe) and got a silver medal. I hope you knew him, he and Dave were both a big part of Honda’s and the sport’s history.

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1) “In the beginning…”

In the fall of 1972, there were a few whispers in the industry that Honda might be working on a new 2-stroke dirt bike. These rumors were generally dismissed as absurd by everyone, me included. “How could Honda, the most 4-stroke of all companies, even consider producing a filthy, smelly 2-stroke? Especially when Mr. Honda, himself, had said that he hated them. Plus, hadn’t we just brought out the excellent 4-stroke XL250 dirt bike to rave reviews in April of that year…how could this possibly be true?”
Looking back, I should not have been so totally dismissive of this possibility. Yamaha had brought out their 4-stroke 650 twin, the XS-1, in 1970. If this, the most 2-stroke of all companies, brought out a 4-stroke, why couldn’t Honda do a 2-stroke? (I remember being incredulous when the XS-1 came out…it’s almost like I believed there was some kind of secret agreement among the big 4 Japanese makers that only Honda could make 4-strokes. I was certain that Yamaha’s effort would be a mechanical disaster, because I believed that they could not possibly have the know-how to make a good 4-stroke. Actually, the XS-1 was pretty good).

In addition, earlier that fall (1972) Kawasaki had brought out their 900cc 4-stroke Z1 (so secret it was code-named the “New York Steak” during its development). So, to an objective observer, it was clear that the “tectonic plates” in our industry were starting to move, as far as to what type of bike each Japanese maker could (or would) make.

(As an aside, I see that Kawasaki is now trying to perpetuate a story that they actually had a 750cc version of the Z1 just weeks away from release in 1969, when they were totally shocked by the surprise release of the CB750 by Honda. This supposedly forced them back to the drawing board to create a 900cc version of the Z1 that finally was released in the fall of 1972. I find this story pretty unlikely, why would it take them 3 years just to bore out their 750 to a 900, if it was really ready to release in 1969?)

2) The January 1973 dealer convention…

Back in those early days, it was up to the sales reps to unload from the transporter and detail all the new bikes that were shown in the displays at the dealer convention. When we opened the doors to the bike transporter and began unloading the bikes, the reps were all just stunned when they saw the CR250M for the first time. All those ridiculous rumors we had been hearing were TRUE!!

It really took us a long time to get our heads around this reality. It was an especially hard task for the rabid 2-stroke haters, which included me. When we finally got a tech briefing on the bike (so we could be knowledgeable about it, before the bike was revealed to the dealers) we all felt a lot better about this strange new model. We could readily see what a breakthrough, industry-changing model this was going to be, and we were sure glad that it had a Honda decal on its tank.

When the CR250M was revealed to the dealers in a film presentation during the business meeting, the dealers just sat in stunned silence. Many of them, like me (and like Mr. Honda) were also 2-stroke haters…having built their entire business on the superiority of the Honda 4-stroke. It took a lot of counseling and reassurance from the reps during the dealer cocktail party and product display, to convince them that this was a good development for both them and Honda.

The story spread across the convention floor that Mr. Honda had said: “Yes, I have hated 2-strokes, but if I decide to build one, it will be the best one ever”. Hearing that quote went a long way towards comforting the dealers, since Mr. Honda was personally-known to many of the dealers, and held in the highest regard by all of them.

3) Daytona Beach 1973…

I was selected to work the Honda display at the Daytona Beach M/C show that was held in conjunction with the 200 race in early March. It was great fun seeing the public’s first reaction upon seeing the CR250M for the first time. There was great skepticism and disbelief from the folks in the Yam / Kaw / Suz camps. I heard many rude and derisive remarks, while working this show. I just smiled and thought to myself: “Just you wait, pal…just you wait”.

These smart-alecks and naysayers were very soon silenced. As Gary Jones, our first factory motocross rider, used the CR250M to give Honda its first National MX title that year.

I was the sales rep for St. Louis at that time. We were having market share problems with Yamaha in that market. There was a show sponsored by the St. Louis area M/C dealers coming up the very next weekend, after Daytona. I thought that the CR250M would be the perfect “sharp stick” to punch Yamaha with, if I could arrange to get this bike from the Daytona show up to St. Louis for that show. I was able to sell the right people in Gardena on this idea…the only catch was that I would have to transport the bike myself, the 1100 miles from Daytona to St. Louis, in a poorly-running Hertz rental truck. I thought that considering the good that it would do for sales in my district, that this was a good bargain.

While I was the Missouri rep at that time, Rod Anderson was the Illinois rep. I was hopeful that Rod would see the merit to my plan, and volunteer to help out on the driving of the Hertz truck up to St. Louis, since I felt that his Illinois dealers across the river would also benefit from having the bike at the St. Louis show. He made it pretty clear to me that this was not going to happen…so, I struck out on my own.
Other than a water pump failure in the truck at about 10 pm that night in Knoxville, TN, the trip was uneventful. I was able to add the CR250M to the other bikes that we showed in the Honda booth at the St. Louis show. It was a great hit at the show, and the dealers were very appreciative that we brought this important new model in for them.

To me, this is a good illustration of what I call the “Open Cockpit Days” of working for Honda…and what great fun it was to work for them during that time. It was a great time for real blue sky thinking…it seemed that nothing was too outrageous to suggest, and many times your suggestion was adopted.

The CR250M absolutely ruled the MX scene the rest of that first year. But the rest of the makers went into overdrive to develop something to combat it with. By the spring of 1974, Yamaha had responded with their excellent YZ250, and the race was really on.

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You did not work at the best M/C dealership in Baton Rouge in the 1970′s…you worked at the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best shop. The distinction of the #1 dealership in Baton Rouge goes to G.N. Gonzales Honda, as everyone in Louisiana, and the rest of the south, who is knowledgeable about this business knows. Its owner “Mr. George” was a personal friend of Mr. S. Honda, and played a big part in getting Honda started in the U.S. He continued to manage the dealership until his passing in January, at age 91.

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