Comments on: Living With Electric Power – A Reader Perspective (If There Is One) (News) http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/ Motorcycle News, Editorials, Product Reviews and Bike Reviews Sat, 25 May 2013 06:24:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: william http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/comment-page-1/#comment-29465 william Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:15:26 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=17814#comment-29465 The whole loud bikes means safety thing is a topic in itself. For electric, close pedestrians might hear the whine of the electric motor, road noise of the tires, and chain and sprocket noise. Other people in cars cannot hear you anyway because they have the windows rolled up listening to the radio, talking on the phone, or too engaged in sending text messages. I almost changed lanes into some loud bikes because I heard the massive noise approaching my position and it sounded like I was about to get run over by a train or an airplane was going to crash land on me or something. It sounded like it was comming from the other direction, must have been bouncing off of the concrete walls along the freeway. I didn't end up changeing lanes but I now know loud bikes do not always mean safety because I experienced that loud can cause problems. I don't think electric will ever replace gas bikes anyway, untill we run out of oil anyway. When that happens we will probably have bigger problems to ponder then optimal bike noise. So loud and obnoxious will still be available for those who like it. People do that with cars today already, they fill the trunk with subwoofers and annoy everyone in a 20 mile radius. The whole loud bikes means safety thing is a topic in itself. For electric, close pedestrians might hear the whine of the electric motor, road noise of the tires, and chain and sprocket noise. Other people in cars cannot hear you anyway because they have the windows rolled up listening to the radio, talking on the phone, or too engaged in sending text messages. I almost changed lanes into some loud bikes because I heard the massive noise approaching my position and it sounded like I was about to get run over by a train or an airplane was going to crash land on me or something. It sounded like it was comming from the other direction, must have been bouncing off of the concrete walls along the freeway. I didn’t end up changeing lanes but I now know loud bikes do not always mean safety because I experienced that loud can cause problems. I don’t think electric will ever replace gas bikes anyway, untill we run out of oil anyway. When that happens we will probably have bigger problems to ponder then optimal bike noise. So loud and obnoxious will still be available for those who like it. People do that with cars today already, they fill the trunk with subwoofers and annoy everyone in a 20 mile radius.

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]]> By: Sabu http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/comment-page-1/#comment-29409 Sabu Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:08:11 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=17814#comment-29409 As someone who lives in a dense urban city, whose typical ride is quite short, and who is somewhat concerned about environmental issues, I guess you could say I am the ideal demographic for these bikes. What turns me off is that the lack of noise is extremely unsafe for urban riding, and I don't like the idea of a fake annoying noise to make up for it. As someone who lives in a dense urban city, whose typical ride is quite short, and who is somewhat concerned about environmental issues, I guess you could say I am the ideal demographic for these bikes. What turns me off is that the lack of noise is extremely unsafe for urban riding, and I don’t like the idea of a fake annoying noise to make up for it.

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]]> By: william http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/comment-page-1/#comment-29382 william Sat, 08 Oct 2011 22:10:57 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=17814#comment-29382 Large portions of the dunes have been closed off that border private land to make a noise buffer. There is no dust there for example. Also no riding after 10pm due to noise, and a 93 db limit. Other areas here the sheriff actually does sound checks. If noise was not a factor then why is there a sound limit that keeps going down? I can see dust being a factor in some locations, however that in no way negates the fact that noise is a huge problem for the sport and less noise will help. Electric bikes so far have a huge noise benefit, thats awsome, and it will help in every area I ride. Less noise is not some irrelevant benefit due to something else being the driving factor. Less noise is huge! I will be hopeful and look forward to a victory on the noise issue, which will help vastly. In the areas where dust is the issue, if the dust problem was fixed, then noise would probably become the problem. In those areas I guess a solution to both would be good. Large portions of the dunes have been closed off that border private land to make a noise buffer. There is no dust there for example. Also no riding after 10pm due to noise, and a 93 db limit. Other areas here the sheriff actually does sound checks. If noise was not a factor then why is there a sound limit that keeps going down? I can see dust being a factor in some locations, however that in no way negates the fact that noise is a huge problem for the sport and less noise will help. Electric bikes so far have a huge noise benefit, thats awsome, and it will help in every area I ride. Less noise is not some irrelevant benefit due to something else being the driving factor. Less noise is huge! I will be hopeful and look forward to a victory on the noise issue, which will help vastly. In the areas where dust is the issue, if the dust problem was fixed, then noise would probably become the problem. In those areas I guess a solution to both would be good.

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]]> By: fazer6 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/comment-page-1/#comment-29377 fazer6 Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:58:47 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=17814#comment-29377 Actually, most issues with dirt tacks, and residential-area riding has to do with dust--Which unfortunately, ebikes create just as much as ICE. Actually, most issues with dirt tacks, and residential-area riding has to do with dust–Which unfortunately, ebikes create just as much as ICE.

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]]> By: fazer6 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/comment-page-1/#comment-29376 fazer6 Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:56:21 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=17814#comment-29376 Any good size battery pack is still many times more expensive than a small engine rebuild. And remember, at this point "parity" with ICE is in the 250cc range--Not exactly expensive engines to repair/rebuild. In fact, you can get a whole replacement engine for a Ninja 250 for about $1000. That's 1/7 the cost of an average battery pack, and a properly maintained 250 will easily run 100,000 miles or more, with cheap (mine is about $6) oil changes and upwards of 80mpg. Tires/chain apply to both modes of propulsion, so cancel out. Any good size battery pack is still many times more expensive than a small engine rebuild.

And remember, at this point “parity” with ICE is in the 250cc range–Not exactly expensive engines to repair/rebuild. In fact, you can get a whole replacement engine for a Ninja 250 for about $1000. That’s 1/7 the cost of an average battery pack, and a properly maintained 250 will easily run 100,000 miles or more, with cheap (mine is about $6) oil changes and upwards of 80mpg.
Tires/chain apply to both modes of propulsion, so cancel out.

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]]> By: Dean http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/comment-page-1/#comment-29332 Dean Fri, 07 Oct 2011 22:13:50 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=17814#comment-29332 While many crotch rockets may die around 20k miles (if you are correct with that) it is likely due to the extreme power output will comprimise reliability. Given the way that many of those bikes are flogged, even a team of mechanics couldn't make them last much longer. However, if someone were to ride a crotch rocket with a more calm head (and wrist), there is no reason to doubt that it would last much longer with proper maintenance. Look at the average life of "regular" motors in Goldwings, Harleys, Standards, etc... 20k miles is just getting started! I have over 35k miles on my Vstrom1000 (riding in a "spirited" manner) and it has been nothing but gas, oil, and filters. Plus the tires and one chain so far. It still rides like new. Many bikes easily get over 100k miles. Batteries willgo bad, even if they are ridden (discharged) and recharged properly. More advanced power cells are like crotch rockets. If they aren't properly taken care of, they too will die prematurely. Too many moving electrons... While many crotch rockets may die around 20k miles (if you are correct with that) it is likely due to the extreme power output will comprimise reliability. Given the way that many of those bikes are flogged, even a team of mechanics couldn’t make them last much longer.

However, if someone were to ride a crotch rocket with a more calm head (and wrist), there is no reason to doubt that it would last much longer with proper maintenance.

Look at the average life of “regular” motors in Goldwings, Harleys, Standards, etc… 20k miles is just getting started! I have over 35k miles on my Vstrom1000 (riding in a “spirited” manner) and it has been nothing but gas, oil, and filters. Plus the tires and one chain so far. It still rides like new. Many bikes easily get over 100k miles.

Batteries willgo bad, even if they are ridden (discharged) and recharged properly. More advanced power cells are like crotch rockets. If they aren’t properly taken care of, they too will die prematurely. Too many moving electrons…

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]]> By: william http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/comment-page-1/#comment-29322 william Fri, 07 Oct 2011 20:39:20 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=17814#comment-29322 Brammo is experimenting with gears instead of just 1, which answers someones inquiry below. Electric dirt bikes just might save the sport, or better yet allow it to expand with more riding areas. Low noise and exhaust smell will allow riding closer to neighborhoods. I would even move to a new house to get in on a neighborhood riding area. Wishful thinking I know, but it could be possible with electric and not possible with gas. What I see offered now is lacking range but other performance is in the ballpark already. I want to buy an electric dirt bike, but unfortunitely I have to watch my money a little closer sine I don't have a lot. Thus I am waiting for some more improvements before I buy. I wish there was a battery breakthrough tomorrow, I don't want to wait any longer. A dirt bike that sounds like a tie-fighter, awsome. Plus electric is way more simple than building a gas engine, which makes me suspect I would see more companies selling dirt bikes in the future. Not that many offroad choices available right now, not counting the mx bikes. I am bored with the same old gas bikes. Brammo is experimenting with gears instead of just 1, which answers someones inquiry below. Electric dirt bikes just might save the sport, or better yet allow it to expand with more riding areas. Low noise and exhaust smell will allow riding closer to neighborhoods. I would even move to a new house to get in on a neighborhood riding area. Wishful thinking I know, but it could be possible with electric and not possible with gas. What I see offered now is lacking range but other performance is in the ballpark already. I want to buy an electric dirt bike, but unfortunitely I have to watch my money a little closer sine I don’t have a lot. Thus I am waiting for some more improvements before I buy. I wish there was a battery breakthrough tomorrow, I don’t want to wait any longer.

A dirt bike that sounds like a tie-fighter, awsome. Plus electric is way more simple than building a gas engine, which makes me suspect I would see more companies selling dirt bikes in the future. Not that many offroad choices available right now, not counting the mx bikes. I am bored with the same old gas bikes.

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]]> By: Morris Bethoven http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/comment-page-1/#comment-29298 Morris Bethoven Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:34:31 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=17814#comment-29298 I agree wholeheartedly. An internal combustion engine is a living, breathing thing. An electric motor with it's synthesized sound track can never equal the sound and feel of internal combustion. We stand to lose a lot in the process. Oh well, I've enjoyed burning hydrocarbons all my life and will probably go out kicking and screaming. They will have to pry the gas pump handle from my cold dead hands! I agree wholeheartedly. An internal combustion engine is a living, breathing thing. An electric motor with it’s synthesized sound track can never equal the sound and feel of internal combustion. We stand to lose a lot in the process. Oh well, I’ve enjoyed burning hydrocarbons all my life and will probably go out kicking and screaming. They will have to pry the gas pump handle from my cold dead hands!

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]]> By: Dave http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/comment-page-1/#comment-29288 Dave Fri, 07 Oct 2011 12:02:30 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=17814#comment-29288 The 80/20 spilt is worth considering. Consider the split between auto and moto users. Gasoline bikes aren't going anywhere any faster than autos are. The 80/20 spilt is worth considering. Consider the split between auto and moto users. Gasoline bikes aren’t going anywhere any faster than autos are.

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]]> By: Xaero http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/10/living-with-electric-power-a-reader-perspective-if-there-is-one/comment-page-1/#comment-29279 Xaero Fri, 07 Oct 2011 04:40:17 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=17814#comment-29279 Its funny that people say that gas motorcycles are cheaper. They are in the short run but what about 10 years down the road? With gas, oil and engine maintenance the gas motorcycle is more expensive than electric, up to thousands of dollars depending on how you ride. In ~80,000 miles how many times will you change your oil, rebuild the engine? How much gas is that? That is the 80% mark for some electric motorcycle batteries. Just because its at 80% does not mean it needs to be changed, so you can continue on to maybe just over 100k miles before even thinking about changing out the batteries. Most Ninja's die around 20k miles and need the engine replaced or rebuilt from my experience. To many moving parts. Its funny that people say that gas motorcycles are cheaper. They are in the short run but what about 10 years down the road? With gas, oil and engine maintenance the gas motorcycle is more expensive than electric, up to thousands of dollars depending on how you ride. In ~80,000 miles how many times will you change your oil, rebuild the engine? How much gas is that? That is the 80% mark for some electric motorcycle batteries. Just because its at 80% does not mean it needs to be changed, so you can continue on to maybe just over 100k miles before even thinking about changing out the batteries. Most Ninja’s die around 20k miles and need the engine replaced or rebuilt from my experience. To many moving parts.

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