Comments on: Where are the Ceramic Brake Rotors? (News) http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/ Motorcycle News, Editorials, Product Reviews and Bike Reviews Tue, 21 May 2013 06:30:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Grunbay http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/comment-page-1/#comment-37053 Grunbay Thu, 08 Mar 2012 00:23:21 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20026#comment-37053 I have felt the bliss of shedding rotating mass when I replaced the stock wheels on my Ducati 900SS with magnesium wheels. I would love to peel a few more pounds from the wheelsets, but one has to remember that the weight savings at the rim (where you save most of the weight when you upgrade your wheels) has a significantly greater effect than weight saved near the hub. For the money invested, and considering the radial location of the weight savings, I opted to stay with iron discs. I have felt the bliss of shedding rotating mass when I replaced the stock wheels on my Ducati 900SS with magnesium wheels. I would love to peel a few more pounds from the wheelsets, but one has to remember that the weight savings at the rim (where you save most of the weight when you upgrade your wheels) has a significantly greater effect than weight saved near the hub. For the money invested, and considering the radial location of the weight savings, I opted to stay with iron discs.

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]]> By: Paul Simmons http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/comment-page-1/#comment-36804 Paul Simmons Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:05:58 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20026#comment-36804 I don't see the logic behind spending all this money on a brake rotor to reduce unsprung weight and rotating mass - at lease on street bike that has a rim and tire that weigh around 20 pounds. The moment of inertia (the quantity we want to reduce when we are talking about rotating mass, and the quantity the gives the feeling of gyroscopic stability and slows down turning) is the product of the mass elements multiplied by their distance from the centre of rotation, so weight lost at the wheel rim makes a much bigger distance than weight lost nearer the axle. If you had two 320-mm discs on your front wheel, reducing the brake discs' mass by 75% would be the equivalent of eliminating ONE POUND from the rim or tire - a much, much cheaper option. Ceramic discs would only make sense if you already had carbon fiber wheels and a lightweight tire. If you got a carbon fibre rim and reduced your rim weight by 5 pounds, the effect on rotational inertia would be five times greater than reducing your brake disc weight by 3 pounds. You would need a lot of money to justify the expense of ceramic brake discs from the point of view of reducing rotating mass. I don’t see the logic behind spending all this money on a brake rotor to reduce unsprung weight and rotating mass – at lease on street bike that has a rim and tire that weigh around 20 pounds. The moment of inertia (the quantity we want to reduce when we are talking about rotating mass, and the quantity the gives the feeling of gyroscopic stability and slows down turning) is the product of the mass elements multiplied by their distance from the centre of rotation, so weight lost at the wheel rim makes a much bigger distance than weight lost nearer the axle. If you had two 320-mm discs on your front wheel, reducing the brake discs’ mass by 75% would be the equivalent of eliminating ONE POUND from the rim or tire – a much, much cheaper option. Ceramic discs would only make sense if you already had carbon fiber wheels and a lightweight tire. If you got a carbon fibre rim and reduced your rim weight by 5 pounds, the effect on rotational inertia would be five times greater than reducing your brake disc weight by 3 pounds. You would need a lot of money to justify the expense of ceramic brake discs from the point of view of reducing rotating mass.

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]]> By: donniedarko http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/comment-page-1/#comment-36625 donniedarko Thu, 23 Feb 2012 03:45:48 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20026#comment-36625 No bed in issue that I had. Less then the ductile iron rotors I have from Braketech. They work excellent at low speed they just are aggressive so you have to be more deft on brake modulation.Machanic whacking my rotors with a 17mm wrench? Any mech whacks anything on my bike he swallows teeth. They are less prone to cracking. Stainless steel is the most brittle, ductile iron is the softest, and CMC even more resilient. Ive had mine for over 10k and the wear is minimal if any. One thing that is exceptional about them is the light wear, and I also run track spec CP911 star pads. Im switching to the more streetable XRAC once I install my new calipers. No bed in issue that I had. Less then the ductile iron rotors I have from Braketech. They work excellent at low speed they just are aggressive so you have to be more deft on brake modulation.Machanic whacking my rotors with a 17mm wrench? Any mech whacks anything on my bike he swallows teeth. They are less prone to cracking. Stainless steel is the most brittle, ductile iron is the softest, and CMC even more resilient. Ive had mine for over 10k and the wear is minimal if any. One thing that is exceptional about them is the light wear, and I also run track spec CP911 star pads. Im switching to the more streetable XRAC once I install my new calipers.

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]]> By: donniedarko http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/comment-page-1/#comment-36624 donniedarko Thu, 23 Feb 2012 03:41:45 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20026#comment-36624 The carbon/carbon rotors in GP have to have high heat running through them to work. Why you will often see them run shrouds on them to keep heat in them. In the rain they disperse heat were they dont perform thus running ductile iron rotors The carbon/carbon rotors in GP have to have high heat running through them to work. Why you will often see them run shrouds on them to keep heat in them. In the rain they disperse heat were they dont perform thus running ductile iron rotors

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]]> By: donniedarko http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/comment-page-1/#comment-36404 donniedarko Sat, 18 Feb 2012 02:04:48 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20026#comment-36404 Someone on the R1 forum posted this about the build of CMC rotors albeit for the automotive build http://youtu.be/LrhVHA-3ZBU Someone on the R1 forum posted this about the build of CMC rotors albeit for the automotive build
http://youtu.be/LrhVHA-3ZBU

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]]> By: Norm G. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/comment-page-1/#comment-36402 Norm G. Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:53:02 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20026#comment-36402 re: "i then wonder why have OEMs moved like a herd to upside-down forks which add to that very aspect of weight?" wonder no further my good man... it's because USD looks "cool" and cool moves product. re: “i then wonder why have OEMs moved like a herd to upside-down forks which add to that very aspect of weight?”

wonder no further my good man… it’s because USD looks “cool” and cool moves product.

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]]> By: Norm G. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/comment-page-1/#comment-36401 Norm G. Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:39:51 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20026#comment-36401 re: "so where’s that extra stopping power going to benefit you?" the snake portion of mulholland where so-cal riders wad themselves with reckless abandon into the gaurdrail. re: “so where’s that extra stopping power going to benefit you?”

the snake portion of mulholland where so-cal riders wad themselves with reckless abandon into the gaurdrail.

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]]> By: donniedarko http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/comment-page-1/#comment-36399 donniedarko Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:52:53 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20026#comment-36399 I own the CMC offering from Braketech and their Ductile Iron Axis rotors as well. First off to the above comment of using steel rotors on GP bikes in the wet is due to the required temperture needed in pure Carbon/Carbon rotors and pads. CMC rotors ride exceptionally well in the wet IMHO as their optimal thermal temperture range is much lower. Initial bite is more aggressive but not bad aggressive. XRAC pads and a variable ratio master cylinder make it very streetable. Also there were iterations of the rotors. The first had issues but later ones are totally good. The company that made the rotors StarBlade [?] went the wayside with the economy as I understand. The rotors, yes, have to be with homologation rules in WSBK as I understand and since $3400 rotors dont come stock on any bikes to make them good. Also I believe a cost hold down, they aint cheap. Also taking the proverbial 'dump' before you ride is the same as riding with Magnesium or Carbon rotors/wheels et al isnt the same. Unfortunately the physics of MoI and rotating mass has little to do with healthy bowel movements... LOL One feels good the other handles good :) I run BST wheels too, and with the CMC's its a riding experience that is unlike anything else any other mod can do. The rotating mass [MoI] diet is = 7 free hp. Add uber light tires like Michelin Pures and it gets silly. Handling gets distorted and the bike more nervous but its amazing. Adjustments to riding style and suspension and its a smile everyday riding my bike to work. A goal on my bike has been to reduce as much unsprung weight, so all unsprung load bearing hardware is in ti. A 520 chain kit and ultra light sprocket with ti cush drive pins [that alone cuts near 1/4 lb] of substantial rotating mass especially at speed. Lighter calipers, and caliper brackets. Some people go for engine work. My motor is bone stock sans deristriction and a optimized map. Chassis and brakes folks is where its at. Unfotunately the ti thing can become an addiction but riding moto's is one already. I just go to another 12 step meeting for my ti problems ;) Apparently BrakeTech is working on another material but looks to be more expensive... well see. CMC's are fantastic, pad use will differentiate bite and feel. If you have the dough and can get them by all means... for the record I ride an 'old' 2002 R1. Riding a full liter bike that weighs just over 380 lbs wet makes for 250cc handling and motard like handling in the tighter corners. Cool artlicle MD :) I own the CMC offering from Braketech and their Ductile Iron Axis rotors as well. First off to the above comment of using steel rotors on GP bikes in the wet is due to the required temperture needed in pure Carbon/Carbon rotors and pads. CMC rotors ride exceptionally well in the wet IMHO as their optimal thermal temperture range is much lower.

Initial bite is more aggressive but not bad aggressive. XRAC pads and a variable ratio master cylinder make it very streetable. Also there were iterations of the rotors. The first had issues but later ones are totally good. The company that made the rotors StarBlade [?] went the wayside with the economy as I understand.

The rotors, yes, have to be with homologation rules in WSBK as I understand and since $3400 rotors dont come stock on any bikes to make them good. Also I believe a cost hold down, they aint cheap.

Also taking the proverbial ‘dump’ before you ride is the same as riding with Magnesium or Carbon rotors/wheels et al isnt the same. Unfortunately the physics of MoI and rotating mass has little to do with healthy bowel movements… LOL One feels good the other handles good :)

I run BST wheels too, and with the CMC’s its a riding experience that is unlike anything else any other mod can do. The rotating mass [MoI] diet is = 7 free hp. Add uber light tires like Michelin Pures and it gets silly. Handling gets distorted and the bike more nervous but its amazing. Adjustments to riding style and suspension and its a smile everyday riding my bike to work.

A goal on my bike has been to reduce as much unsprung weight, so all unsprung load bearing hardware is in ti. A 520 chain kit and ultra light sprocket with ti cush drive pins [that alone cuts near 1/4 lb] of substantial rotating mass especially at speed. Lighter calipers, and caliper brackets.

Some people go for engine work. My motor is bone stock sans deristriction and a optimized map.

Chassis and brakes folks is where its at. Unfotunately the ti thing can become an addiction but riding moto’s is one already. I just go to another 12 step meeting for my ti problems ;)

Apparently BrakeTech is working on another material but looks to be more expensive… well see.

CMC’s are fantastic, pad use will differentiate bite and feel. If you have the dough and can get them by all means… for the record I ride an ‘old’ 2002 R1. Riding a full liter bike that weighs just over 380 lbs wet makes for 250cc handling and motard like handling in the tighter corners.

Cool artlicle MD :)

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]]> By: Reinhart http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/comment-page-1/#comment-36398 Reinhart Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:37:33 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20026#comment-36398 I went to the swap meet at Vet's Stadium and picked up a practically new rotor for 2 bucks. The old one had 55,000 miles on it and needed replacing. I doubt if I will ever be able to find the same deal with a ceramic rotor. I went to the swap meet at Vet’s Stadium and picked up a practically new rotor for 2 bucks. The old one had 55,000 miles on it and needed replacing. I doubt if I will ever be able to find the same deal with a ceramic rotor.

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]]> By: Norm G. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/02/where-are-the-ceramic-brake-rotors/comment-page-1/#comment-36396 Norm G. Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:34:44 +0000 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20026#comment-36396 in 7 words or less... "welcome to the niche business of motorcycling". in 7 words or less… “welcome to the niche business of motorcycling”.

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