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	<title>Comments on: 1000cc Honda Moto GP Bike Puts Out More Than 250hp According to Satellite Team LCR (Bike Reports) (News)</title>
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	<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/</link>
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		<title>By: alpinaweiss</title>
		<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/comment-page-1/#comment-39054</link>
		<dc:creator>alpinaweiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 17:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20798#comment-39054</guid>
		<description>in moto-GP racing, the importance of HOW does an engine 
release the its max.output (versus HOW MUCH this output is 
in net-terms and HOW SOON it occurs in the rev range) is 
much bigger compared to 4-wheeled racing.  

this is mostly due to the fact that a motorcycle rear tyre, 
being a VERY elastic dynamic model (flexing under load, 
contact patch variations linked to lean angle and MOST OF ALL 
power &quot;pulses&quot; influencing the shape of the actual contact patch 
at any moment of time), is much more dependant on the engine&#039;s 
torsional-vibration-characteristics and the frequency/mode of 
the power delivery pulses.  The latter is MOSTLY influenced by 
the engine firing order / crankpin angling, which is one of the 
key reasons why top-notch racing bikes are going in the direction 
of V-engines and I-3, as opposed to flat-plane I-4 etc.. 

Of course, there are other reasons linked to packaging, aero, mass 
centralisation, reliability, and (last but definitely NOT least), 
engine structural rigidity at high-RPM (as engine blocks are getting 
more and more used as stressed parts of the &quot;frame&quot;, or what&#039;s left of it..
(not unlike F-1 singleseaters).

As soon as an engine becomes a VITAL part of the chassis/frame load-bearing 
structure (and this goes BOTH for cars and bikes..), you&#039;d be surprised to see
how suddenly some &#039;packaging&#039; and design issues become of FAR greater importance 
than (comparatively) V.E. or friction relaed advantages that the &quot;other&quot; solution 
has...

Bottomline:  the Inline-4 (at least when mounted in a conventional position in a bike&#039;s frame) is VERY disadvantageous for the requirements of a top-level racing bike design.  
Just try to imagine how edgy it must be to control 250-ish HP at the rear tyre under extreme lean angles, and you&#039;ll anticipate how every single aspect of the way HOW is the power delivered suddenly becomes extremely important.

AW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in moto-GP racing, the importance of HOW does an engine<br />
release the its max.output (versus HOW MUCH this output is<br />
in net-terms and HOW SOON it occurs in the rev range) is<br />
much bigger compared to 4-wheeled racing.  </p>
<p>this is mostly due to the fact that a motorcycle rear tyre,<br />
being a VERY elastic dynamic model (flexing under load,<br />
contact patch variations linked to lean angle and MOST OF ALL<br />
power &#8220;pulses&#8221; influencing the shape of the actual contact patch<br />
at any moment of time), is much more dependant on the engine&#8217;s<br />
torsional-vibration-characteristics and the frequency/mode of<br />
the power delivery pulses.  The latter is MOSTLY influenced by<br />
the engine firing order / crankpin angling, which is one of the<br />
key reasons why top-notch racing bikes are going in the direction<br />
of V-engines and I-3, as opposed to flat-plane I-4 etc.. </p>
<p>Of course, there are other reasons linked to packaging, aero, mass<br />
centralisation, reliability, and (last but definitely NOT least),<br />
engine structural rigidity at high-RPM (as engine blocks are getting<br />
more and more used as stressed parts of the &#8220;frame&#8221;, or what&#8217;s left of it..<br />
(not unlike F-1 singleseaters).</p>
<p>As soon as an engine becomes a VITAL part of the chassis/frame load-bearing<br />
structure (and this goes BOTH for cars and bikes..), you&#8217;d be surprised to see<br />
how suddenly some &#8216;packaging&#8217; and design issues become of FAR greater importance<br />
than (comparatively) V.E. or friction relaed advantages that the &#8220;other&#8221; solution<br />
has&#8230;</p>
<p>Bottomline:  the Inline-4 (at least when mounted in a conventional position in a bike&#8217;s frame) is VERY disadvantageous for the requirements of a top-level racing bike design.<br />
Just try to imagine how edgy it must be to control 250-ish HP at the rear tyre under extreme lean angles, and you&#8217;ll anticipate how every single aspect of the way HOW is the power delivered suddenly becomes extremely important.</p>
<p>AW
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		<title>By: Gutterslob</title>
		<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/comment-page-1/#comment-38779</link>
		<dc:creator>Gutterslob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 13:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20798#comment-38779</guid>
		<description>Yes. Slow corners... long straights... slow corners.
I now live in Singapore and have ridden track days in Sepang, Malaysia in the past. Great in a car (fastest I&#039;ve gone is in a friend&#039;s cousin&#039;s 911 GT3), but on a bike it just doesn&#039;t flow.

Yes, I realize I&#039;m no racer, but even Rossi calls Sepang and most other GP circuits car tracks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. Slow corners&#8230; long straights&#8230; slow corners.<br />
I now live in Singapore and have ridden track days in Sepang, Malaysia in the past. Great in a car (fastest I&#8217;ve gone is in a friend&#8217;s cousin&#8217;s 911 GT3), but on a bike it just doesn&#8217;t flow.</p>
<p>Yes, I realize I&#8217;m no racer, but even Rossi calls Sepang and most other GP circuits car tracks.
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		<title>By: Norm G.</title>
		<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/comment-page-1/#comment-38741</link>
		<dc:creator>Norm G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 18:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20798#comment-38741</guid>
		<description>re: &quot;Too bad all this trick technology gets castrated by having GP bikes run at car circuits&quot;

by car circuits, you mean the same ones that were purpose built to accomodate the scale of F1...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: &#8220;Too bad all this trick technology gets castrated by having GP bikes run at car circuits&#8221;</p>
<p>by car circuits, you mean the same ones that were purpose built to accomodate the scale of F1&#8230;?
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		<title>By: Norm G.</title>
		<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/comment-page-1/#comment-38736</link>
		<dc:creator>Norm G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 17:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20798#comment-38736</guid>
		<description>re: &quot;how’s that sound…? - Stupid&quot;

... said the struggling 7th grader to the math tutor. :(   

re: &quot;By the example I cited, “mature” riders would choose the in-line four (not the v-motor, preferred by the OP) — the in-line four makes more torque and at a lower RPM.&quot;

except in practice this isn&#039;t what occurs.  mature riders (by definition) are neither math AVERSE nor are they inclined to just &quot;write off&quot; the effects of gravity.

re: &quot;I’m with John and Todd — power characteristics are designed-in — not a consequence-of.&quot;

then what we have here is a &quot;hat-trick&quot; of bad assumptions...! :) LOL  guys, designing it in is just ONE way, not to be confused with the ONLY way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: &#8220;how’s that sound…? &#8211; Stupid&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230; said the struggling 7th grader to the math tutor. <img src='http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' />    </p>
<p>re: &#8220;By the example I cited, “mature” riders would choose the in-line four (not the v-motor, preferred by the OP) — the in-line four makes more torque and at a lower RPM.&#8221;</p>
<p>except in practice this isn&#8217;t what occurs.  mature riders (by definition) are neither math AVERSE nor are they inclined to just &#8220;write off&#8221; the effects of gravity.</p>
<p>re: &#8220;I’m with John and Todd — power characteristics are designed-in — not a consequence-of.&#8221;</p>
<p>then what we have here is a &#8220;hat-trick&#8221; of bad assumptions&#8230;! <img src='http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  LOL  guys, designing it in is just ONE way, not to be confused with the ONLY way.
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		<title>By: Norm G.</title>
		<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/comment-page-1/#comment-38733</link>
		<dc:creator>Norm G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 16:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20798#comment-38733</guid>
		<description>re: &quot;I side with Mr Tuttle on this one.&quot;

excellent, then this will be a &quot;3-fer&quot;. 

re: &quot;You can engineer any characteristic you want into an engine. Being an inline or V is immaterial&quot;.

you (and you only) are right in this observation, statement, but what do you have when you fail to split hairs on the engineering...?  what do you have as a bonus, when you&#039;ve spec&#039;d a configuration for an unrelated set of priorities...?  ps, there are hundereds of thousands (if not millions) of engines in operation that got spec&#039;d on only a handful of parameters.  a current example that comes to mind would be mazda&#039;s outgoing 2.2L diesel.  RTL&#039;s statement is 100% correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: &#8220;I side with Mr Tuttle on this one.&#8221;</p>
<p>excellent, then this will be a &#8220;3-fer&#8221;. </p>
<p>re: &#8220;You can engineer any characteristic you want into an engine. Being an inline or V is immaterial&#8221;.</p>
<p>you (and you only) are right in this observation, statement, but what do you have when you fail to split hairs on the engineering&#8230;?  what do you have as a bonus, when you&#8217;ve spec&#8217;d a configuration for an unrelated set of priorities&#8230;?  ps, there are hundereds of thousands (if not millions) of engines in operation that got spec&#8217;d on only a handful of parameters.  a current example that comes to mind would be mazda&#8217;s outgoing 2.2L diesel.  RTL&#8217;s statement is 100% correct.
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/comment-page-1/#comment-38695</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20798#comment-38695</guid>
		<description>&quot;...so what i’d like, is for YOU to complete the rest of the math and then come on back and report on what you’ve discovered. how’s that sound…?&quot;
Stupid -- the topic is engine design (or, as the OP put it: &#039;motors&#039;) not motorcycles.
ride2live says: &quot;...mature riders understand that torque is where it’s at.&quot;
By the example I cited, &quot;mature&quot; riders would choose the in-line four (not the v-motor, preferred by the OP) -- the in-line four makes more torque and at a lower RPM.
I&#039;m with John and Todd -- power characteristics are designed-in -- not a consequence-of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;so what i’d like, is for YOU to complete the rest of the math and then come on back and report on what you’ve discovered. how’s that sound…?&#8221;<br />
Stupid &#8212; the topic is engine design (or, as the OP put it: &#8216;motors&#8217;) not motorcycles.<br />
ride2live says: &#8220;&#8230;mature riders understand that torque is where it’s at.&#8221;<br />
By the example I cited, &#8220;mature&#8221; riders would choose the in-line four (not the v-motor, preferred by the OP) &#8212; the in-line four makes more torque and at a lower RPM.<br />
I&#8217;m with John and Todd &#8212; power characteristics are designed-in &#8212; not a consequence-of.
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		<title>By: Todd Glasier</title>
		<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/comment-page-1/#comment-38577</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Glasier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20798#comment-38577</guid>
		<description>I side with Mr Tuttle on this one.
You can engineer any characteristic you want into an engine. Being an inline or V is immaterial.
The original comment related more to the basic perception of everyman and the colloquial use of the term Torque to mean low end power, vs. high rev peak power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I side with Mr Tuttle on this one.<br />
You can engineer any characteristic you want into an engine. Being an inline or V is immaterial.<br />
The original comment related more to the basic perception of everyman and the colloquial use of the term Torque to mean low end power, vs. high rev peak power.
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		<title>By: Norm G.</title>
		<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/comment-page-1/#comment-38563</link>
		<dc:creator>Norm G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20798#comment-38563</guid>
		<description>re: &quot;I have made a concerted effort to think of a reason why it would really make sense to use the word “torque” as a label for low-rpm performance&quot;

because it&#039;s correct.

re: &quot;while I have come up with several things that kinda sorta make sense, I have not come up with anything that makes perfect sense.&quot;

then you need to keep thinking is all.  the answer&#039;s there. here&#039;s a hint, it&#039;s not nearly as complicated as you&#039;re making it.  that&#039;s what&#039;s keeping you from seeing it... &quot;you&#039;re overshootin&#039; the runway&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: &#8220;I have made a concerted effort to think of a reason why it would really make sense to use the word “torque” as a label for low-rpm performance&#8221;</p>
<p>because it&#8217;s correct.</p>
<p>re: &#8220;while I have come up with several things that kinda sorta make sense, I have not come up with anything that makes perfect sense.&#8221;</p>
<p>then you need to keep thinking is all.  the answer&#8217;s there. here&#8217;s a hint, it&#8217;s not nearly as complicated as you&#8217;re making it.  that&#8217;s what&#8217;s keeping you from seeing it&#8230; &#8220;you&#8217;re overshootin&#8217; the runway&#8221;.
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		<title>By: Norm G.</title>
		<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/comment-page-1/#comment-38561</link>
		<dc:creator>Norm G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motorcycledaily.com/?p=20798#comment-38561</guid>
		<description>re: &quot;Hmmm…, KTM RC8R (1190cc V-Motor) = 127 NM of torque @ 8000 RPM : Suzuki GSX1300R (1298cc in-line four) = 140 NM of torque @ 7000 RPM.&quot;

unfortunately, you&#039;re making the classic mistake of simply comparing apples to oranges. no worries, what you need is a common metric to tie those 2 models together and give it meaning.  it&#039;s starts with asking the question, &quot;gee, how much does a busa weigh?&quot;.  i already know the numbers and the answer, but just spiting &#039;em out (like most are apt to do) doesn&#039;t really help.  so what i&#039;d like, is for YOU to complete the rest of the math and then come on back and report on what you&#039;ve discovered. how&#039;s that sound...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: &#8220;Hmmm…, KTM RC8R (1190cc V-Motor) = 127 NM of torque @ 8000 RPM : Suzuki GSX1300R (1298cc in-line four) = 140 NM of torque @ 7000 RPM.&#8221;</p>
<p>unfortunately, you&#8217;re making the classic mistake of simply comparing apples to oranges. no worries, what you need is a common metric to tie those 2 models together and give it meaning.  it&#8217;s starts with asking the question, &#8220;gee, how much does a busa weigh?&#8221;.  i already know the numbers and the answer, but just spiting &#8216;em out (like most are apt to do) doesn&#8217;t really help.  so what i&#8217;d like, is for YOU to complete the rest of the math and then come on back and report on what you&#8217;ve discovered. how&#8217;s that sound&#8230;?
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		<title>By: Norm G.</title>
		<link>http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/1000cc-honda-moto-gp-bike-puts-out-more-than-250hp-according-to-satellite-team-lcr/comment-page-1/#comment-38527</link>
		<dc:creator>Norm G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>not yet.  as far as i know formula 1 still uses pressurized nitrogen (from which the bike systems are derived).  the actuation is only used to put the valve back on the seat.  a conventional cam is still used to lift the valves off their seats.  i reckon it&#039;s pretty bullet proof at this point and performs well ahead of what&#039;s needed.  unlike F1, RPM&#039;s here can&#039;t be converted into downforce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not yet.  as far as i know formula 1 still uses pressurized nitrogen (from which the bike systems are derived).  the actuation is only used to put the valve back on the seat.  a conventional cam is still used to lift the valves off their seats.  i reckon it&#8217;s pretty bullet proof at this point and performs well ahead of what&#8217;s needed.  unlike F1, RPM&#8217;s here can&#8217;t be converted into downforce.
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