I also have not seen any data on Electrics crashing yet, but talk to any rescue worker , and there are concerns with any battery pack (Hybrid or full electric) in a crash. Properly contained, these packs are fine, but in a crash anything can happen. A battery pack with enough stored energy to move a vehicle at highway speeds for any given distance is a risk.

Landfill safe batteries? Really? I don’t know what kind of marketing hypwe that is, but again, any power pack that stores that much energy has more than just egg shells and cinnamin sticks inside. Every hardware store has a recycling container for Alkaline batteries, Lithium batteries, NiCad batteries, etc… I would think if electric vehicles somehow came up with a landfill safe battery, all our devices would be using them. Perhaps it is landfill safe AFTER it gets some of the nastiness removed… That I would believe.

I am just trying to keep it balanced. There are many posts that want electrics to be instantly better than ICE (better, stronger, faster, cheaper) and they are easily discounted since they are the same posters who complain that ICE vehicles should be lighter, faster, more powerful and cheaper. But then there are long winded rants for the Electrics that come off much the same way.

My long winded rant is just trying to fight fire with fire. Or fight batteries with fire?? Can’t we all just get along?

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No one is holding elctric vehicles to higher standards than ICE vehicles, if their overall performance beat ICE people would buy them, plain and simple. When comparing costs, operational costs for an electric vehicle should be less, but their performance capabilities are far inferior. The ICE has evolved into a durable, low maintenence power source, and most of the maintenence on a motorcycle doesn’t involve the engine any more. Some bikes require only periodic plugs and oil changes. Both ICE and e-bikes are on equal footing with tires, brakes, chains, suspensions, etc.

It’s less than honest to point only to the efficiency of the motor itself, proponents would love to end the conversation right there to avoid the inconvenient truth that generating electricity isn’t 100% efficient, nor is transmitting it, nor is charging the battery, or draining it too. I can fill my gas tank, add some stabilizer, and next year kick start my bike and drive off with full power and undiminished range. How much charge, if any, will your e-bike have left?
Keep in mind right now you are not paying a motor fuel tax on the electricity your e-bike runs on, that will change if they become common.

Improved efficiency is not a priority for most motorcyclists, if I wanted efficiency I’d sell my liter bike and ride a scooter. Touting the gas mileage is for wussies trying to justify buying a bike to their wife. Efficient, low emission vehicles are not why people visit motorcycle showrooms. The truth is, manufacturers only stay within the limits of what they’re required to, because they have to make something that people want to buy. If the law allowed there’d be modern versions of RD350′s and H2′s in the showrooms.

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I think the green groups are just a front so people give them money. They picked a topic that almost everyone will support. Who doesn’t want a clean environment? We all do. I would agree the liberals are con artists and have many people fooled. They constantly try to close down offroad motorcycle areas. However, I still like electric bikes and do not think you should associate them with some stupid liberal thing.

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“Also in the case of an accident, the environmental impact of a battery spill is much worse than for an ICE,”

Oh really? I’d like to see some data on that. I haven’t heard one case of a “battery spill” but I’ve heard plenty of cases of oil spills, or gasoline, coolant, and engine oil spills with car accidents. ICE vehicles can also catch fire and blow up too! What I’m hearing is a lot of assumptions and educated guesses. Several studies have already been done comparing the complete impact of each type of vehicle from start to finish. Electric vehicles which, as you say, use roughly the same amount of parts, but operate at 90% efficiency compared something like 20% efficiency of the ICE, will come out on top. If we could transition more of our energy sources towards clean renewable energy, then this gap would grow further.

“BUT THE BATTERIES are full of nasty chemicals”
Zero Motorcycles batteries are “landfill safe” maybe you could explain how that could be possible if they are so full of nasty chemicals? I’d like to see your info that shows how the batteries “have a much larger environmental impact during manufacturing, and eventually recycling when they are used up.” Again, I’m not denying there’s an impact, but I’d really be interested to see how recycling a battery has much worse impact than say recycling an engine, engine oil, coolant, etc or something like that. I think you’re making assumptions based on your personal understanding.

“Once they are running, ICE versus Electric does favor the electric in terms emissions. But they are by NO MEANS a Zero emissions vehicle. Electric plants must burn a fuel of some sort.”

Yes because electric motors use their energy much more efficiently, as everyone knows. That right there should end the conversation. No one is claiming they have zero impact. Wind turbines don’t burn fuel, and neither do solar panels, or hydro electric dams. Yes, obviously energy went into creating those, but energy also goes into creating a coal plant. Yes, currently there are loses across the grid, we know this. However, one plant making a ton of electricity is more efficient than everyone driving around burning their own source of fuel under the hood to make energy. Electric motors operate at something like 90% efficiency, ICE engines is what around 20% with most of their energy escaping in the form of heat.

Again, no one here is claiming these things are a “free lunch” or the perfect solution, or have zero impact or emissions. What we’re saying is, things like this are a STEP in the right direction to improving efficiency, lowering emissions, reducing dependence on foreign oil, etc. etc. I don’t see how anyone can argue with that.

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A friend just got a Mazda 3, which accomplishes Prius-level mileage with no batteries/hybrid stuff, extra weight etc. The market will work if it’s allowed to.

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