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Casey vs. Marc: Tell Us What You Think

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Let’s face it, none of the current riders can challenge Marc Marquez at this point. Seemingly, he beats the likes of Valentino Rossi, Jorge Lorenzo and Dani Pedrosa with ease. Every week. Now 10 for 10 this year, Marquez looks set to break more records in his second year in the premier class.

Multi-time MotoGP champ Casey Stoner was also considered an “alien among aliens” … at least, at times. He won races and took pole on a Ducati that was so difficult to ride it literally destroyed the career of somewho tried to ride it (Marco Melandri comes to mind immediately). Other MotoGP riders described Stoner’s skills as “other worldly” (Rossi more than once saying Stoner rode “like a god”). Nicky Hayden, who would know, said Stoner could do things on a motorcycle no one else could do.

Tell us what you think below. Take Casey Stoner in his prime, healthy and motivated, and have him race Marc Marquez in his current form, on equal equipment.  Who wins and why?

 

 

64 Comments

  1. jim says:

    Stoner cracked, I don’t think Marc will go that route.
    That said, the Honda is definitely the dominate bike on the field, there is no question on hp.

  2. Mark Pearson says:

    I’ve never understood the Stoner Cult thing. I’ll probably always be a Rossi fan. The word Racecraft makes me embarrassed to be a motorcyclist.

  3. OneWhoKnows says:

    If the 2007 and 2008 Ducati were dominant, why did fast guys and proven winners like Capirossi and Melandri hate it so much? Too many riders have been unable to make it work at all and in 2007-2008 they complained about the exact same things the Ducati riders are still complaining about today. The bike was and still is a career killer.

    Casey burned out and lost his desire but those first few years at Ducati he rode far beyond the capabilities of any other rider.

    Like Freddy Spencer… fast, then gone.

    • VLJ says:

      Capirossi and Melandri (and Rossi and Hayden) weren’t on the same Ducati Stoner rode, and, more importantly they also weren’t all on the same tires. The year Stoner won on the Ducati he had an enormous advantage with tires. When he no longer enjoyed those same advantages, he didn’t win any additional championships on the red bike. Rather, he crashed a lot trying to ride around his bike’s inconsistencies.

      • Norm G. says:

        (your conclusions are all wrong Ryan)(Sean Connery voice)

        re: “The year Stoner won on the Ducati he had an enormous advantage with…”

        …the “knives” the Japanese brought to the gun fight.

        • VLJ says:

          And the tires. Stoner’s bike/tire combo that year was dominant.

          • Norm G. says:

            re: “And the tires”

            that would’a been nice, but no.

            tyres aren’t what sent Big Red and Big Blue back to their labs to go “hammer and tongs” performing MILLION DOLLAR makeovers of their top ends…

            it was DESMO.

          • VLJ says:

            Sorry, but you’re forgetting about the tire situation that year. No biggie. It happens to the best of ‘em.

  4. Karlsbad says:

    Dam shame is we will never know, IMHO taking into consideration how “ALL” other riders have been unable to put the Duc where Casey did at a time when the bike was supposedly un ride able…. My money would sit with Casey, what he did on the Ducati was amazing considering the likes of Rossi,Hayden Melandri,and others have been lucky to see the podium let alone win a championship. While on the other side who doesn’t want to ride the Honda?. Don’t get me wrong I think MM is the best rider in the field today 10 wins kind of proves that, still it would have been quite a show I’m sure to see these two go at it on similar bikes.
    PS
    While we are at it why not have a dream race with all the greats Dunlop,Spencer,Rainey,Schwantz,Augustino,Roberts,Fogarty…….(Insert your favorite)

  5. Norm G. says:

    if you guys saw how Suppo’s eyes ROLLED BACK in his head when asked this question…?

    …you wouldn’t be asking this question.

    Stone’s retired (and sure as hell won’t be coming back to race on 17’s). just spitballin’ here, but perhaps we should move on.

  6. Man Relish says:

    Put both riders on the current Ducati and let them race….ha ha

  7. Al says:

    Stoner would lack the mental strength of Marquez. Game over.

  8. Gary says:

    No one has been more dominant in his first two years than Marquez. I think he is the fastest ever. If he stays healthy, he’ll rewrite the record books.

  9. Rick Jansen says:

    27 vs 93 on identical bikes.
    93 would win 60% of the time, 27 would win the other 40%.

  10. Provologna says:

    I was there at Austin this year. I considered flying to Indy, but alas, watched the telly at Texas Roadhouse.

    At Austin, looking from the Main Grand Stand about 70′ from the track, it seemed very much like Marc’s bike had considerable HP edge over Lorenzo and Rossi. Marc seemed to increase his lead several bike lengths per lap, just on the longest straight.

    I can’t wait to see it again at Austin in 2015. Do not miss that race if there is any way you can make it.

    More fans at the track wore Rossi clothing than any other rider, by huge margin. As another race fan said while we exited the track, Marc’s fans will grow because everyone loves a winner. There will more Marquez shirts and hats in 2015.

    I’ll take Marc over Stoner. I would not miss that race!

  11. h says:

    Stoner was lost in so many ways. Maybe someone should stage a Casey Stoner challenge cup at Phillip Island.. one race, identical bikes and Casey can ride in it against Moto GP riders etc..if he wins there you go, if does not win, well I guess no second year for the event.

  12. Man Relish says:

    it seems MM brakes harder and later into the turns than anyone else, passing people like this no less. How does he not loose the front wheel grip? It seems impossible, unless it has something to do with the sideways slide he seems to induce going into every turn….

    • Norm G. says:

      re: “it seems MM brakes harder and later into the turns than anyone else”

      no, that title belongs to Spies. the only guy to take a digger having spooned a front tyre CLEAN off it’s rim. now that’s what I call “braking a bead”.

      get it…? “braking” a bead…? see what I did there…? :)

  13. Tim says:

    On identical bikes, I’d take Lorenzo over Stoner and Marquez over both of them.

  14. Ken says:

    Remember that Dorna/Bridgestone changed the tire specification and added 4kg to the bike weight right before the season started that caused the Honda’s to have some issues where they didn’t in preseason. Earlier Stoner stepped on the Honda and just blitzed the field. I think Dorna did it to avoid a runaway season and spice up the show. Now that they have a Spanish rider on top they’re content to let him re-write the record books and generate his own momentum. So in terms of talent and speed I think they’re too close to call except maybe at Philip’s Island. In racecraft and attitude, Marquez wins hands down.

  15. JPJ says:

    2 different riders from 2 different eras of the 4 stroke bikes. Both guys on equal machines? What machine are we racing? Pre-electronic aid, I’ll put my money on Stoner all day. Marc has grown-up with the rider electronic aid. Better question? How would Marc fair on the Ducati Stoner won the Moto-GP championship on ? I’m not a Marc hater he’s making the other GP riders look slow. How can one argue with 10 wins in 10 races. Unless he makes a big mistake or inclement weather. I don’t see anyone beating him heads up all season !!!!!!!!!!!

    • Dave says:

      Re: “Marc has grown-up with the rider electronic aid.”

      His first experience with electronic aid should’ve been last year. Moto2 doesn’t have it.

      • Bob L. says:

        True….the guy is freaky good. I think he’d win, aid or not.

      • Norm G. says:

        re: “Moto2 doesn’t have it”

        or at least EVERYBODY ELSE in M2 didn’t have it.

        i still contend there was something “quite unreasonable” going there. (Morrie Kessler voice)

        when you can see a speed differential down the straight on tv (sans draft no less) from powerplants that are supposedly “equally prepared”…? that’s a RED FLAG to engineer.

        Dorna thought everybody watching were “schmucks on wheels”.

  16. TF says:

    I thought MM would slow down as he crashed and got hurt. He’s gotten better. He learns from his mistakes and makes fewer of them. He’s unbeatable right now. Stoner would be an also-ran just like the other four or five riders as he didn’t deal with the pressure and the set-backs so well.

    Funny thing, MM went zipping by me on a scooter this past weekend at Indy with a great big smile on his face. He is obviously having a great time……that makes a big difference in the final result.

  17. John says:

    Dunno, but I’d love to see the two of them go head to head on a pair of Groms at a go-cart track

  18. Bocker says:

    Stoner lacks racecraft and Marquez does not. I don’t believe Stoner can consistently cut through a field full of the current crop of MotoGP riders. Marquez has proven he has this ability time and again.

  19. potodu says:

    The only answer is to force Marquez to ride the GP14 for the rest of the season and see how he does. ;)

  20. Bill C says:

    Marquez is good for this era, and he gets on better with the Honda than Pedrosa does.

    But I’d like to see how MM does with the software switched off before I’d rank him with the greatest like Hailwood, KR, Wayne, Eddie, etc.

    (Ago won most of his races and titles unopposed, so I don’t even rank him with the others!)

    • Dave says:

      They all ride the best of what’s available in the day. MM’s skill is not diminished by more tech. He still steers with the throttle. He still manages his tires better and goes faster than everyone else and it could be argued that he’s dominated by narrower margins than any dominant rider before, indicating even greater skill than the past greats.

      • Norm G. says:

        re: “it could be argued that he’s dominated by narrower margins than any dominant rider before, indicating even greater skill than the past greats.”

        me, myself, and i would argue 21st century technology is GREATER than what was on offer in the 20th century.

  21. Jeremy in TX says:

    At the “alien” level of racing, it really seems the machinery is playing a very decisive role in who wins and who doesn’t. I think both Rossi and Lorenzo could give Marquez a hard time on equal machinery, as could a couple of others in the field. Stoner? I am sure he would give the youngster fits as well, though he doesn’t seem as consistent as Marquez. Stoner always seemed to be on the ragged edge of the limits. Marquez may be as well, but he manages to fall off of that edge less than Stoner.

    Marquez is one of the best ever, period. But the true phenomenon this year is that of man AND machine. The two together seem unstoppable.

  22. mickey says:

    Heck for fun why not throw in Agostini in the mix. 15 GP titles, 10 isle of mann wins.

    Imagine a race with Agostini, Hailwood, Redman, Roberts, Rainey, Lawson, Doohan, Spencer, Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo and the pup Marquez all on the starting line at the same time.. Holy smoly, would that be something to see

    • VLJ says:

      At least for one race, I’d also add Schwantz to that list. In fact, I might even pick Schwantz to win that hypothetical single race.

      Otherwise, in terms of winning the championship, I’d take an in-his-prime Rossi. Marquez hasn’t shown that he can dominate Moto GP on less-than-dominating machinery. Other than the unrideable Ducati, which bore no relation to the bike/tire combo on which Stoner won his title, Rossi won championships on every bike he’s ever ridden, including a (supposedly) wholly uncompetitive Yamaha. He also had to contend with much greater competition, compared to the relatively thin and wildly overmatched grids with which Ago blithely toyed. Do I suspect Rossi wins seven top-class titles had he raced in the Golden Eras of Roberts/Sheene/Spencer and Lawson/Rainey/Schwantz/Doohan? No, of course not. But I would expect him to take home the lion’s share of the championships.

      • Scotty says:

        The lions share? No I think they would all have a similar amount. Hard to pick between them for me.

        And then there is the TT – simply winning the race is an enoumous challenge and the days when it was part of the Continental Circus were epic days of epic riders. Surtees, Duke, Guthrie, Woods…champions all.

  23. Vrooom says:

    It would be a great race, but I think Marquez can’t be beat, even by a hypothetical Stoner. The guy’s only in his second season, but he’s got 10 in a row. Wish it wasn’t this one sided up front, but it is.

  24. stinkywheels says:

    I’ve heard what it took to make that Duc turn when Stoner was in his prime. I don’t know if Marquez would be able to do that. We’ll never know how great he really is as he’s on the dominant bike that can make a great rider greater.

  25. Tom Shields says:

    IMO Marquez is the better rider. Stoner was brilliant but was at his best leading, in clear air. When he got caught in the pack, not quite so brilliant. Marquez can fight his way out of the pack to the front. He reminds me of Rossi in his prime – cabable of laying back and stalking, and then taking command at will.

    • mickey says:

      Perfect analogy..like Rossi in his prime.

    • The Other Bob says:

      I’ll second that. Marc and Casey are incredibly similar in riding style and technique, both use the minimum amount of TC and letting their wrist do the talking but as said, there is one critical difference.

      Casey does not like to bang bars. He wants the track to himself to pick his own lines and ride his own ride.

      Marc will bash fairings with anyone and take chances (although calculated ones) to pass underneath or on the outside.

      That one difference is enough to put Marc on top of Casey.

      However, this also makes Casey the BEST test rider for getting a winning machine to Marc.

  26. RRMAN says:

    I am so tired of hearing people say only stoner could ride the Ducati. He only won the title one year on it when it was the dominant bike. In 2008 it was still the bike to have and he couldn’t beat Rossi. The Yamaha and Honda progressed and the Ducati didn’t. That is why others haven’t won on it since. Stoner couldn’t even win the title on the dominant Honda in his last year.

    • Tim says:

      I have to agree with you. Stoner’s Ducati championship bike was as dominant, relative to other bikes, the way Marquez’s Honda is this year.

    • tonifumi says:

      you have no idea.
      If the Ducati was so dominant, how did the other rides fair in those “dominant seasons”?? The Duc was a career killer and Stoner won races on it many times after he won the championship…..Oh and then he won on the Honda !!! You forgot that!

    • Dirck Edge says:

      How is it you know more about this than Nicky Hayden (who was teammate to Rossi and Stoner at different stages of his career) and Rossi himself (who ranked Stoner’s skill above all others on the track with him). Fact is you don’t .. just spewing hot air. Ask Marco Melandri, as well, although I suppose you think you know more than he does about this subject, as well. Stoner won 6 races the year Melandri couldn’t see the podium with a telescope.

  27. mickey says:

    Marquez would win…it is quite apparent the kid simply refuses to lose. No matter how bad of a start he gets, no matter how far from the front he is going into the first turn, he has an intense desire to win, or a refusal to lose, and he doesn’t let off, even after he takes the lead. Great trait in a racer. He also apparently has no fear.

  28. pete Rasmussen says:

    No one can beat Lorenzo, Rossi and Pedrosa EASILY. There was something like one tenth of a second a lap between them at the brickyard. Great to see them all on the very edge of whats possible. Stoner would thrash him at Philip Island. Tyres and setup would determine the results as usual for other races. They are all masters of the art!

  29. Luis says:

    Honda telemetry engineers know the answer . Each rider has riden for Honda , the telemetry doesn’t lie and can tell what each rider can do on or over the limit of grip and traction , allowing maximum throttle and drive for the greatest amount of time = victory . That data transcends year to year . I believe Ducati insiders said that Stoners throttle control was better than the electronics and that allowed him to out ride his teammates and get the best from the machine .

  30. bikerrandy says:

    I don’t think Stoner’s ego is big enough for him to want to find out if he can beat Marquez. If he couldn’t that would just add to Marquez’s infallibility.

  31. Larry Dwyer says:

    I’m Australian and a Stoner fan (unfortunately the two don’t always go together because of a certain V. Rossi ) but I see a fully fit Stoner all over the back wheel of Marquez but rarely getting in front. Nobody has dominated like Marquez, winning the championship at his first attempt, then 10 in arrow from 8 pole positions. Great though Ago was, he always had the better bike. I’d like to see Troy Bayliss out there with Stoner and Marquez!

  32. ry says:

    Stoner is bloody fast right out of the gates and can manage to get away from ‘aliens’ by hammering out consistent, really fast laptimes. The only problem is he can do it only for max of 3 races. He is some1 who doesn’t bother much with fitness aspect of racing. I’m sure he understands it. But doesn’t train too hard like lorenzo does.
    Marc on the other hand though I feel is slower in outright laptimes he is slightly faster than other aliens and can do this consistently for entire season. He is fit come any race day.
    Now if they were locked in battle I would say marc’s moves may disrupt stoner but once he finds a way past there’s no stopping him. Marc might be hounding him but if stoner is fast enough then its hard. Remember the overtake on the outside of lorenzo at 200 mph in blind 1st corner at laguna 2011? That’s just ballsy..

  33. JJ says:

    It’s a real shame on the British media for driving Stoner out.

    Marquez is doing it easy because Lorenzo had a bad start to the year.

    I love watching Marquez since the Moto2 days, I could see he would end up MotoGP champ.

  34. VLJ says:

    Until I see MM beating a Lorenzo or Rossi (an in-his-prime Rossi, at that) on equal machinery, I’ll reserve judgment. For that matter, the same holds true for Stoner. When he won on the Ducati, come on, that bike on those tires that season clearly had the field covered. When he won on the Honda, same thing. He had the Yamahas covered, and they were the only real threat. That is, unless one considers Dani Pedrosa to be a legitimate threat to win a Moto GP title, and not merely the Caddie Championship.

    All in all, I suppose I would probably pick Stoner to win any one individual race, especially Phillip Island, while I’d likely choose MM to win the championship. He’s just more consistent, and consistency wins championships.

  35. EZ Mark says:

    All in their prime…Rossi beats them both.

    • huu says:

      Might not beat them, but he’s at least their equal. As far as Marquez, thus far he has had everything going for him, best bike, best team etc. Can’t really judge him like Rossi and Stoner who rode for many teams – and still won.

  36. al says:

    Of course there is no way to know for sure what would happen, what we do know is both of them are very gifted riders who would not give up a battle easily.
    All in all I think that Marquez would win overall.. He gets the job done regardless of where he is at the start of the race. Casey got beat once in awhile, but then to give him credit he won on a very difficult mc to ride. Electronics being what they are now who knows..

  37. Marc says:

    They both ride so close to the edge I see them taking each other out on the final turn. Lorenzo and Rossi then place 1 and 2. Pedrosa 3rd 10 seconds behind Rossi.

  38. Silver says:

    Stoner even crashes in his sleep trying to catch Marquez.

  39. Eric B says:

    Meh, King Kenny would beat both of them.

    • Blackcayman says:

      yes

      Seriously…who could even be trusted to pick the GOAT GP pilot???

      One thing is certain, Stoner took his gold and went home – otherwise we wouldn’t have to speculate.

  40. J Haynes says:

    Stoner would NOT be slower than Marquez. Those two racing one another, with the mindset they would have, believing they were the fastest, would have been off the charts! Shame we will never see it.

    • motobell says:

      +1 Stoner was fast or may be even faster than Marquez – Marquez is ridiculously consistent.

      Marquez ans Sroner are two of fastest ever and we will never get to it see it – sad that Dorna pissed him off.. Ducati should go and beg at Casey’s feet to come back.