Competition is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, if you offer a racer something (such as traction control) that would give him an edge over the other racers, he’d take it in a heartbeat if he had any kind of competitive nature at all. (Some even take this to the extreme and break sanctioning-body rules in their efforts to get an edge.) On the other hand, if you start regularly beating them, the rest of the racers aren’t going to sit on their thumbs, and will do their best to get their own edges (such as their own versions of traction control). Eventually, everyone will have what once provided an edge to just one racer. Once the playing field is level again, everybody will be equal, but everybody will also be at a higher level. Then the whole process will repeat itself. Ad nauseum.
After some number of these sorts of advancement events filter their way through the starting grid, spectators will get jaded because drivers/riders end up doing superhuman things They might even start thinking, “Hell, I could do that if I had a bike with all those gadgets.” See Little Stevie Atlas’s article in the recent issue of Cycle News, the one in which he relates his experiences riding the Honda and Ducati MotoGP machines, for a reality check if you fall into that camp.
Why do engineers do the things they do, even if it seems like they’re “ruining the sport”? Because they can. Bottom line? Ya can’t stop progress. You can join the fun, or you can be the racing version of the guy who sticks his head out his front door and yells, “You damn kids, get off my lawn.”
I've never ridden a motorcycle with traction control, but I did once own an RX-8. Pressing the button to disable the traction control and trying to drive it aggressively was an eye opener. What was a completely controllable vehicle turned into a bad out take from a teeny bopper drifter movie.
There is no question in my mind that I could have probably out driven a pro driver in an identical car without it. It is really THAT good.
Unfortunately, the car refused to start when it was cold so I dumped it.
Regards, An electrical engineer without a dog in this fight.
Not an MC engineer (retired from Bell Labs, tho, in 2001.) Let's go inverse for a while. Feet to wheels (no brakes, just drag your feet) to motorized (no clutch, just a slipping belt) to rear suspension to front suspension to disc brakes to fuel injection to...
electronic control? What's next? More of the same.
Can't imagine the day, though, when the rider will be left out of the equasion completely.
Dirck, next year there will be no traction control in Formula One. No other electronic driver "enhancements" either. Just skill and daring. No electronic traction controls in NASCAR either. Read Valentino Rossi's opinion on this:
Say Hey Dirck and Crew - Murphy's Law -- Whatever can go wrong, will. O'Toole's Corollary -- Murphy was an optimist. We will always find a way to screw up a good thing. Even electronic enhancements designed to keep us safe.
Fully active suspension. It's making a comeback in automobiles, maybe motorcycles should be next. Back when F-1 cars had turbos and 1500hp it seemed like this was the next big thing. Unfortunately the rules changed, and active suspensions fell to the way side. With current 1000cc street bikes making 160hp, perhaps it's an idea that should be revisited?
I reckon electronics can make a less skilled rider think he was better at the game than he/she actually is, right up until he/she suffers brain lock and crashes him/herself into oblivion.
Rider aids such as traction control and anti-lock brakes will never allow the "relatively unskilled riders" match the pace of professional level racers. There is more to racing than the issues that traction control and anti-lock brakes address. Formula One, where driver aids have run the gamut from fully active hydraulic suspension to fully automatic gearboxes to traction control to standing start software, has proven that the skill of the driver still makes a significant difference. Otherwise, they could put any decent driver in the car. They don't....
Software can't pick the right line or decide how fast to turn the bike in or stand it back up It can't decide when to roll on the throttle or how to manipulate it through a turn. It can't decide when to start or stop braking. Software can't pick its way through traffic.That is woefully incomplete list of things a rider does that software can't. But I think it illustrates that riders have a much greater influence over race results than the software ever could. A Sunday Morning Ride hack is never going to challenge Rossi in a race on equal bikes......
Just a quick comment to my objection to most electronics, both two and four wheeled. I believe in the competence of the operator, not masking an operator's stupidity.
A lot of people are operating vehicles in a manner far above their abilities, and this is wrong. They are living with a false sense of their talents, or just being stupid
and getting away with it, at least for a while. I do not thing that the incompetent should be rewarded. I am not an expert as far as my driving and riding skills are concerned,
but I believe I know my limits and try to stay within them. That is the thrill of the exercise. Traffic levels, modern driving and riding conditions, along with enforcement, generally do not allow much spirited activity, making many of the "aids" questionable value. When things do "open up", it is nice to explore the normal limits of both man and machine.
Obviously as soon as the backers of electronics use the word "safety" and "saving lives", my argument is blown out of the water, but all the same I stand by my views. Thanks for listening.
I commute in the dark, the electronics I would like most to see included on (touring) bikes would be an flir thermal-vision unit like the Pathfindir. They're nearly $5K though so I don't expect to ever see that as an oem option. Cruise control comes in second, gps third and everything else somewhere below. Hellaciously loud horns are a given and don't get included on my list.
The more they take away rider input and control the less fun motorcycling will be. Eventually we will simply enter our destination into the bikes computer, then sit back and watch a DVD while the bike does all the work. If this happens motorcycling will be dead and no more fun than taking a bus. To the motorcycle manufactures of the world I say;- Please listen to us. It may thrill you to develop bikes with amazing technology, but eventually all of the things that make motorcycling thrilling to riders will be gone.
I am an engineer involved in the development of proximity radar systems for highway vehicles, and I believe that the most significant effect of the integration of electronics into motor vehicles may not be beneficial to either novice or expert motorcycle riders. Although at least some of the participants in the “Intelligent Transportation Systems” Initiative are developing products tuned to the smaller area of a motorcyclist, it is likely that as forward collision warning devices become more common on cars and commercial trucks, the temptation to legislate their mandatory use on some roads will result in the banishment of motorcycles from those roads. In the December 2007 issue of Friction Zone magazine, Fred Rau gives a sobering assessment of this possibility.
Regardless of the enhanced safety of automatic controls such as ABS, traction control, and proximity radars, no such system will be an equal to the talent and skill of an accomplished racer in a long, long time – possibly never. I would wager that an autonomous “robot” motorcycle would be more likely to outperform a skilled rider before any such system could overcome the input of a less skilled rider – but what fun would that be?
I can’t wait. It sounds like as soon as we have traction control, I’ll be able zip right past Valentino Rossi. Who knew?
I’m not an engineer, but let’s apply a little logic to this topic. Say we take a handful of us normal folks on identical stock Suzuki RM 450’s and go racing with Ricky Carmichael, and then let’s get on stock Ducati 1098’s and go racing with Casey Stoner. Now anyone out there that seriously thinks they are even going to stay on the same lap as either of these boys, please raise your hand and we’ll get psychiatric help for you ASAP. Remember, to apply your basic mathematical equation and you won’t go wrong: 90% rider, 10% bike.
I'm no (motorcycle) engineer. I am a long-time Expert racer with some CCS regional championships, and a former California Superbike School riding instructor.
My feeling is that all these electronics advances will, in no way, enable "relatively unskilled riders to perform nearly as well as professional level racers". There are two reasons why this won't happen. One, all the electronics in the world won't save you if you are simply going too fast in a corner. And two, the vast majority of the time, when a relatively unskilled rider performs well below the level of a pro, what is happening is that they are slowing down way more than necessary at corner entry. So, they go through the corner much slower than the pro. And so again, no amount of electronics is going to suddenly make that person go into the corner a lot faster.
One of the skills that a top racer has is the ability to get to their turn-in point at just the right speed. A speed where, for example, 1 MPH faster, and they crash or, at least, experience sliding that substantially slows them down and/or puts them off line - either way resulting in a significantly increased lap time. A relatively unskilled rider doesn't gain that ability via electronics. If electronics does embolden them, they might increase their corner entry speed by a little or a lot. But, they still won't have the skill to nail that "just right" corner entry speed. They will either go in, say, 5 MPH too hot and crash. Or 5 MPH too slow and still not be performing "nearly as well as a pro."
I’m a mechanical Engineer with 10 years riding experience on the street. I never thought I wanted any electronic assist on a motorcycle. Now after riding my ABS equipped motorcycle home from work in the rain (many Florida afternoons) and through light snow in Colorado I’m now very glad it has ABS. Traction control in cars can be programmed to allow a certain amount of slip (or wheel spin) before interfering. This allows a skilled operator to still take advantage of steering with the throttle and other techniques. In my opinion this technology can assist most all levels of riders, however just like an amateur driver cannot compete in Formula 1 I don’t expect a novice motorcyclist to ride at an advanced level with this technology. In support of this I have witnessed many novice riders with the latest, greatest sport-bike unable to keep up with a skilled rider on a Bandit. I still wouldn’t mind an on/off switch for any traction control or ABS.
