On October 26, 2003, we wrote an article that asked the question “What Happened With Aprilia in MotoGP This Year?” Here are some of our readers’ responses. These have not been edited, whatsoever.
- Looks like the bike had development issues and of course a rider that was accustom to
A totally different bike.- I think that what happened to Aprilia is many things.
One, maybe a 3 cylinder isn’t enough to compete in MotoGP, Honda went the 5 cylinder route and so did Ducati, Ducati got it right the first race. Also, I think Aprilia went a little to far on the technology side. Fly by wire and all the gadgets do take away some of the feel. I know that out of the 11 bikes I’ve had, the ones I could push the hardest and felt the most confident on were the simpler ones. I don’t think Ducati has the most technologicaly advanced bike out there but it works. Just look at World Superbike.- Too much new technology requiring too much time and money which they
didn’t have.- To answer your questions, yes, it bit off more than it could chew. Yes, it employed technology either unfit or unready for motorycle racing. And yes, money was a factor.
Kenny Roberts claims that it is more economical to pursue multi-cylinder power than it is to pursue three-cylinder weight savings. That is why his new four-stroke engine is a V-5 and not a triple.
Aprilia should probably take a break from GP racing and go back to production-based racing for a few years, until it gets it’s economic ducks in a row. To recoup the development cost of the ill-fated RS3, it should develop a three-cylinder streetbike capitalizing on its work in MotoGP. This should be the new Laverda. Aprilia is foolish to market another iteration of its 60-degree V-twin engine as a Laverda when it has the foundation for a top-notch triple sportbike in the Cube. Then one could argue that Aprilia was foolish to try to compete at motorcycle racing’s highest level with a triple.
When and if Aprilia returns to the highest level of prototype racing, it should come back with a V-5, or whatever proves to be the dominant configuration at the time.
I only hope that the drain of fielding a failed MotoGP team doesn’t have the same effect a similar effort had on Cagiva a decade ago.- I believe it basically comes down to power / track-a-bility or “hook-up” as N. Hayden would say. It seems reasonable so far that the V motor with multiple cylinders is handling the power and everything else much better at this point. While the weight savings is nice on paper, I don’t think at the speeds they travel that it actually remains an advantage. A 3 or 4 cylinder inline, just does not seem to be the package for these tracks in Europe. Yamaha is making it work pretty well, but when the tires go off, they go backwards. Forget Suzuki and their V-4, they just don’t have enough power and the goods to make a go of it. I think most people assumed that they could do a superbike design and add a motor.
Anyway, the 3 is just not going to work. Did not work with Proton in 2 stroke and won’t work here.
I have heard of an Aprilia V-8 GP bike? It could just be a test bike, but I have heard there may be such a beast.- IMHO, I think they went a little too radical in their design approach.
Ducati stuck fairly true to where they had success, v-twin (OK – v-Four,
same idea) with the desmo – they just set the engineers loose with a huge
pot of expresso and told them “Don’t worry about making this one into a
streetbike – just a race winner.” Aprilia went the other way – they have
experience with V-twin 4-strokes, or two strokes, and they end up with a
triple? No one else needs fly-by-wire throttle response, pneumatic valves,
etc to do well, just build what you know and take it to the highest possible
level. Yamaha, while not having the best year, makes a smoking in-line 4
and they applied their R1/R6 thought process to the M1 and had some good
results when they had Biaggi in the seat. Melandri proved the bike can
motor at Philip Island too! I have never seen the advantage of the triple
for racing pay off. The early KR 2-stroke triple, the Foggy Petronas, and
the Cube, never seem to put it together and finish on the box. With a good
rider, the tire technology seems up to the task of handling the increased
weight and power of the v-4/5’s and the tracks in Europe are mainly huge and
seriously fast so i would think HP and not a little more weight would be the
answer. Also, technology is great, but every time you stick a computer in
between the man and the machine, you lose some “feel”. I had a VW rabbit in
college with manual steering, skinny tires, 5 speed. I knew every time I
lost a tiny bit of traction or hit a pebble. My SUV today needs all that
damn computing power just to keep it on the road, because I’ll be damned if
I can tell what’s going on with the chassis. I don’t know jack, but I would
bet Colin would rather have a throttle cable and some valve springs and 40
more HP, (plus a chatter-free chassis) than a bike with the highest
tech-geek factor in the paddock.- I don’t know what happened, but it sure is disappointing. Aprilia has the racing background, and knowledge to compete and I my opinion the best looking bike on the field. Why they haven’t exploited the 3 cylinder weight advantage is a mystery. I just hope they don’t give up. Right now it’s almost an all Honda event, and even Honda knows that’s not good for the series or them. This series needs competitive machines from a number of manufactures to keep it exciting.
- Aside from proving their ability to win, manufacturers like to raise the
profile of their product by associating it with racing. Aprilia has been
quite successful in the past, but competing with honda in an unlimited
budget 4 stroke class is gong to be difficult. I applaud their efforts, but
they may be missing a golden opportunity.
With all the manufacturers (save Ducati) leaving the WSB series, now would
be great time to race the new 2004 Mille in WSB, as the possibility of a
first WSB title would be the greatest, in the absence of Honda, and without
Xaus (maybe) and Hodgson.
This would serve to improve the public profile of the Mille, perhaps
secure a first WSB title, gain some additional 4 stroke experience and give
their factory a boost in morale. Any arguments that WSB is a dead series
would be moot, as the ducati / aprilia battle would make the series
interesting again.- Well, we all know Haga and Edwards are capable riders, so it’s not a rider issue. Haga has been riding Aprilia’s for a few years, and Edwards has been quite competitive in World SBK and obviously champ in 2002. For anyone to say the riders need to get used to the GP, they’d be fools in my opinion. Look at Nicky Hayden? It took him 2/3 of the year, but hey, he at least climbed up the finishing ranks with capable machinery.
It’s a shame because I like Aprilia and their machinery a lot. I think they have the “think outside the box” mentality that can be successful in racing, and they may just need to develop a new machine from the drawing board. Perhaps they just need to exploit the bike they already have and “teach” their riders how to push it.
It has been a VERY interesting year in Moto GP and I think next year will only be more exciting as all the manufacturer’s redevelop, improve what they have(Honda included) and shuffle the riders and their contracts around a bit. Should be a fun year in 2004!!!!!- Hey look at Kawasaki they are not doing well either. Racing for your R&D is tough and you sure can’t be competitive doing that. I hope Collins gets a competitive bike, but I don’t think it will be with Aprilia at least not for a couple of years. Turn the Tornado lose on something that will run and he’ll be on the podium once again.
- I completely agree. I have been a fan of Aprilia for years and I was very excited to see them compete in MotoGP. I think the problem rests in horsepower. The Honda’s while weighing more, put out more HP (along with Ducati). I would love to see Aprilia become competitive, but until they up the power on their bikes, they will always be “middle of the pack” at best. The so-called weight advantage didn’t count for anything at all. In the immortal words of Tim “the tool man” Taylor, “More power!!!”.
- It’s apparent, isn’t it? More cylinders = more speed. Edwards and Haga rock, the Cube is obviously underpowered, no matter how light it is. Maybe Aprilia’s extremely talented riders should go vegetarian to lose weight, or run to Honda, Ducati, Yamaha.
- I think the story with Aprilia and Colin Edwards has been told a thousand
times before. Take one extremely talented rider (from a different brand),
put him on a technologically very different bike and he can’t perform. I
think Colin was looking for a Honda in Aprilia’s clothing. This might be
a bike someone needs to “grow-up” racing.- Aprilia thought that technology could be their sword to vanquish Honda. Well, technology for technologies sake never seems to work well. I think they would have been better off building a killer motor and chassis with technology they obvious have and understand as demonstrated by their superbike efforts of past. They need the proverbial Shelby Cobra; simple, effective, brutal, a winner. I dream of what Colin could have done with such a weapon.
- With Honda dominating in MotoGP and Ducati in WSB, maybe the world
is ready for one manufacturer offering us a chance to see who the best
riders are. Like the old IROC auto series, it would be a kick to have
all the crotch rocket aces test their skill against one another in a
race of “identical” bikes.- Edwards and Haga definitely can ride. And Edwards proved at Laguna last
year that he can win on a slower bike (I thought Bayliss’ Ducati was
faster at that point of the season). This year, I think Aprilia sorely
underestimated the determination of Honda, Ducati, and Yamaha to be
competitive in MotoGP. Like Suzuki and Kawasaki, they just don’t want
it bad enough. I guess Suzuki can be forgiven for primarily focusing on
the various AMA series and WSBK to a lesser extent, but Aprilia doesn’t
have that excuse. However, I’m glad we don’t have the NASCAR affect in
MotoGP where the slower manufacturers are given special dispensation.- I think that you may have a good point in the statement about using unproved and untested car technology. As we well know “feel” is ever so important when riding a motorcycle hard and fast, and to really shake your confidence by having a vague and imprecise “feel” must be very frustrating to riders like Colin and Haga-san, who like to push very hard indeed.
It must have been very discouraging for Colin to go plowing into his competitors at the beggining of a race, due to throtle control problems ( they never admited to that, of course ) And what about that incredible fire that Colin had? Talk about scary stuff!
It is a shame that Aprilia has not fullfiled their potential in MotoGP, and I hope they do, some time in the near future. I am a great fan of their Mille street bikes, and I would hate to see them fail in racing at the highest level.- 1) Two APRILIA riders on three cylinder equipment do not equal multiple
riders on winning, five cylinder based machines from HONDA!
2) APRILIA has had previous ‘racing’ equipment failures.
3) Attempt wins in the Superbike class before attempting MotoGP.
4) MotoGP success is directly related to manufacturer expendature.- I wouldn’t rule out the Cube just yet. Yes they have a frustrating season but not necessarily fruitless compared to Suzuki, Proton, and Kawasaki. They have been reported to be burning the midnight oil to get to the minimum weight by next year and hopefully they have ironed out the new technologies so that they can maximize its potentials.
- They need to switch to a 5 cylinder to get more torque out of the corners. You can’t ride a lightweight bike with peaky power. That’s why Colin can’t go fast on it without crashing. Suzuki, Yamaha, and Kawasaki need to do the same to be competitive. If you can’t beat the hondas you need to copy them.
- One of the things is the bike seems to be the ergonomically wrong for the riders, Haga and especially Edwards don’t look comfortable on the bike. Remember when Honda were first developing the RCV? Rossi complained it was too small and they fixed it.
But there has to be more problems than that, there should have been some results by now, with it being in its 3rd year of racing. Edwards has said the problem is not with the chassis or suspension, they think the problem is being caused by the engine.- While I have great admiration for both Aprillia ( of which I have
personally competed on ) and for Colin Edwards, I believe that the
“expectation” of Aprillia’s “CUBE” winning races was very optimistic to
say the least against the major manufacturers. Yes Ducati has done so but
there four stroke technology was already in place where Aprillia’s has been
confined to a few years in WSB. There are always going to be “also rans”
in any racing class and Aprillia may find that they are one of them despite
there best efforts. As far as Edwards position at Aprillia, perhaps his
decision to go to there may have been more to do with getting in the
backdoor of Moto GP than perhaps genuinely believing in his chosen
manufacturers ability to be seriously competitive.- Aprilia (and more so Yamaha) have machines that are capable of producing the lap times. The problem is that fast laps in the race require a bike with torque out of the corners and horsepower down the straights.
The Proton three cylinder two stroke sat on pole in Australia last year. But come race time it could not run with the other bikes on the track.
Ducati understand this better than any other manufacturer. (maybe because they pay attention to the history of their success in World Superbike)
And, just a short note on history, Rossi will NOT leave Honda. Honda, Rossi, and Rossi’s team are playing the same game that Doohan (Rossi’s advisor) played when he was riding. Keep your competition in limbo until the last minute while you are testing and developing for next year.
I would respect Rossi more than I do now if he jumped to Ducati. But why leave the best team and bike and risk looking like the bike was why you were winning? Gibernau has proved that the Honda is the best bike.
Thank you for a great website!!!- In my opinion it appears Aprilia has gone down the completely wrong track. When all other manufacturers have gone with a larger capacity and copped the weight on the chin it is a bold move to go out on ones own. Honda have a V5 and are rumoured to be working on a V6. Ducati said openly they tested the theory of a Vtwin but could not make it work. So aprilia, it maybe “cool” to have all of these wizz bang gizmos but I think it was best somed up by Colin’s body langauge in the wet warm-up at Phillip Island after being spat down the road. He stood next to it and shook his fists as if to say “You see thats what I am talking about”.
Get it right Aprillia.- According to Colin Edwards’ comments at his ceracing.com, the RS3
motor dictated an odd and non-optimal countershaft-swingarm pivot
geometry that compromised handling and grip. A chassis update seemed to
just create chatter. It’s obvious that the Cube’s current motor defies
proper integration into a good frame- those two major assemblies need
to be optimized together, one cannot be designed at the other’s expense.
A new triple motor is being readied, supposedly smaller and lighter,
for the 2004 campaign. I hope this one enhances handling instead of
destroying it…and that Aprilia can find some decent talent to develop
and race the thing. When viewed in its proper context as only the
second-ever Aprilia racing four-stroke (and their first shot at the new
MotoGP rules) the Cube hasn’t done so badly.
Just ask Kawasaki and Suzuki!- I do not think that the budget is the main concern. If
you look at Ducati’s effort and the cost of their
team, one would guess it would equivalent or even less
than what Aprilia has spent. It is true that Ducati
has the backing of the mighty Marlboro, but given
their lack of development time, it should make up any
slight economic advantage that it may have over
Aprilia negligible. I think what Aprilia lacks and
what Ducati has is race know-how that has been crafted
through their identity. Ducati has stuck to the basics
using trellis frame, the usual desmo, and even their
electronics (webber-mirelli) were mostly evolutions of
the WSB effort. Aprilia tried to outsmart motoGP with
F1 technology when it only left them with so much
unknown variables.
Besides Aprilia, you also have Suzuki and Kawasaki,
both heavily backed effort. With both, i think they
have contracted the disease of the “losing” mentality.
No amount of budget can overcome that disease.
My final point, race with what you already know and
continue to improve on it; which is the exact focus of
Ducati.- My hunch is that Aprilia has been out spent by Honda and others. Even
Ducati last year had to learn in WSB that when Honda really put their minds to
it, they are near impossible to beat.
We all had high hopes for Ducati in MotoGP and they did not disappoint,
however, after the Assen GP their relative performance began to slip. My
sense is that Honda stepped up their development effort and got the better
of Ducati during the latter part of the season.- If the fly-by-wire throttle were the problem, it seems the team could
have easily tried a mechanical throttle linkage; so I don’t think that
was it. Pneumatic valves haven’t been a problem so far as I’ve heard
and the only difference is they offer higher rev potential and
therefore higher power. I believe the Aprilia has enough power; it
was fastest down the straight at several tracks. The problems that
Edwards has complained about all seemed to be handling problems. It
may be that Aprilia chose too short a wheelbase or placed the motor
wrong. It’s hard to believe they couldn’t have sorted any other
problems over the season. Another difficulty may be that although
they had enough peak power, achieved by using high revs, they didn’t
have a broad enough spread to make the bike competitive. I believe
Honda has said they could easily get another 30hp; which suggests that
they’ve chosen the engine configuration with the most potential
(piston area=power) so that they could run it in a less peaky state of
tune.- Throttle by wire sucks on any vehicle, as long the driver has four wheels under their ass,and a good “brain”! The only thing that I can think of that is simular would probably be trying to fly a remote control airplane.I have broke a few because of the absent feeling of human control.There is a definite “reflex,calculation,and perciption feel, that is missing. I think its an “Edsel” for the bike world.
As for Colin Edwards he needs to go to Yamaha!- I think that Aprilia will be competitive, eventually. It seems like they have just used so much technology and new ideas at once that there have been some teething issues. I think they will work the problems out eventually. Everyone knows Aprilia can win, and I think they will.
- I believe that in Nori Haga and Colin Edwards they had 2 of the best 4 stroke riders in the world, I do not however believe that they have the expertise nor the money to beat Honda, the best thing for both riders would be for Edwards to try and secure a Honda ride and for Yamaha to re employ Haga, certainly with the right team behind him Haga is the most exciting rider that I have seen since Schwantz!
Good luck!- Obviously aprilia has had a bad time of it in motoGP this season. Almost all of their trouble
has been with the front end “chatter.” Apparently they just cannot find the cause. In certain
instances, when it is not so bad, Haga and Edwards have been very fast. In my opinion, the bike
is very competetive, and almost the fastest in the field in a straight line. These imensely talented
riders just need to be able to trust their bikes. Somewhere in the engineering is the answer. I cannot
even imagine the frustration last year’s WSBK champion must be enduring. I believe the factory support
is there.- As regards Aprilia’s fortunes in Motogp, I think their
modest results point to a failure to adequately
balance two competing needs in creating a racebike.
Those two competing needs are 1) developing new
technology and 2)using proven technology. As far as
my club racer/shade tree mechanic/modest of budget
perspective allows me to see and understand, both
Aprilia and Suzuki placed way too much weight in the
“new technology” side of the scale. Ask Mick Doohan
about all the times he let Alex Criville do the
development work.- In my humble opinion the 3 cylinder will not work correctly in MotoGP. It does not have the out of a corner pull or a 4 or 5 cylinder. The petronas Foggy also is not doing well.
- Is this not what Moto GP is about ? Manufactures pushing the limit of technology in a racing format. This is what separates Moto GP from World/AMA Superbike. Allthough it seems to be the teams with the bigger budgets make it to the podium.
- Good question. Having followed Aprilias’ season closely I’ve seen lots of different things, some strange, none wonderful. Watching from an Internet seat I can only speculate but one thing strikes me. It appears a question of where inside the organization or who. The problem is Aprilia, not their riders, probably not the technology, and not primarily money.
In 2002 at end of season Aprilia released some comments that put blame on Laconi, expressing disappointment he wasn’t trying or developing enough. Laconi has since proved good enough for a factory ride with Ducati. This year was a repeat of last year as Aprilia goes steadily backwards in competitiveness even with a current world champion on board. It seems unlikely that pneumatic valves or ride-by-wire are causing the chattering problems seen over the last half of the season. Ducati has much less money than Honda yet came so far and so fast. Aprilia may need to take a good long look at how they run their program and understand whether it is badly. Why has the chattering problem lingered so long? Why can’t Aprilia solve such a critical problem when they had something that worked before? Remember the clutch/starts problem from early in the season. Why is Edwards still getting crappy starts? I believe Aprilia and the Cube can be a giant killer if they can analyse problems and execute solutions, things it appears they can’t do right now.- I side with the over engineering the bike argument. There is, perhaps, a unique rhythm created by the mechanical elements of a machine that become ‘feel’. Perhaps isolating these elements behind an electronic interface of something like a servo motor precludes the possibility for a rider to bond with the bike, and therefor be able to fully anticipate it’s behavior.
Perhaps it is a very good bottle of wine tonight.- Thanks for the Aprilia article.
My thoughts are that it is too bad Aprilia didn’t do better, results wise.
However, FP1, KR, nor Aprilia had a great year. I wanted to see Corser,
McWilliams and Edwards on the TV coverage, but it was all the front
runners.
I hope they all hang in there. Remember when Schumacher went to Ferrari?
It took a little while for development, now the record speaks for itself.
Something good is bound to happen to these good riders and their teams.- I think that Aprilia did indeed bite off more….
Edwards and Haga are competitive riders. They know how to communicate with
their team to get set-ups correct for each race. But, somehow, they could
not exploit the potential of a 3 cylinder with great HP possibilities and
even lighter weight requirements.
It comes down to how Aprilia approached the season. It is extremely
difficult to compete with big money. It is obvious to me that Honda and
Ducati were more willing to spend the bucks in the initial development of
their respective machines…not to mention that those two superior
development teams have superior talent.
It’s hard to compete with winners as well. Look at the WSC series and how
Aprilia seemed to have potential but ultimately did not podium much past
their initial season with the Mille. It has the set-up specs, but somehow
the Mille just cannot hack it against the Ducati’s, and when the factory was
still in it, the Honda RC51’s.
So, I believe it is just a matter of engineering. I have a pal with a
Tuono R and it seems to have all the specs that would produce a spectacular
motorcycle. I have a Honda twin and it pulls way quicker in real world
riding as the Tuono just does not seem to have the bottom end torque of my
Honda. Again, engineering.
I rest my case.- Supposedly, the Cosworth engine arrived in a form that placed the crank & final-drive in a position that was at odds with the optimum placement of the rear suspension pivot and/or linkage. I believe this could account for the “chattering” issues Edwards & Haga complained about all year. Also, the lack of launch control may have had a deleterious effect on the results as neither rider was ever able to hit the first corner with their competitors. Add to that the carbon F-1 style clutch & you have a recipe for pain (point exaggerated by Edwards’ South Africa experience). A fuel blow-up didn’t help matters either…what a beast of a bike.
I really hope the rumoured new engine will cure some of these issues up for whoever pilots that thing next year. I have heard that the fly-by-wire system is up to spec after much early season persperation.
It does seem to me that Haga is getting the short end here, he has had results mirroring Edwards’ all year. If CE gets that Honda ride, #41 should get a(nother) shot on a Yamaha,
