Just when you thought Honda might be paying less attention to its motorcycle division than in times past, and without a cutting design, this happens. At EICMA, Honda is displaying a prototype V3 engine layout with an electrical compressor (think zero turbo lag). We don’t have a lot of information at this point, but this looks headed for production. Note how slim they made the prototype frame surrounding this motor (bottom picture).
Here is Honda’s press release:
MILAN, Italy, November 5, 2024 – Honda unveiled the world’s first* V3 motorcycle engine with an electrical compressor, at EICMA 2024 (the Milan Motorcycle Shows; Press days: November 5-6, Public days: November 7-10) in Milan, Italy.
The water-cooled 75-degree V3 engine is being newly developed for larger displacement motorcycles, and has been designed to be extremely slim and compact. It features the world’s first electrical compressor for motorcycles, which is able to control compression of the intake air irrespective of engine rpm, meaning that high-response torque can be delivered even from lower rpm. In addition, the electrical compressor allows a high degree of freedom of layout of all components in the limited space available on a motorcycle and efficient centralization of mass. It also does not require any form of intercooler.
Honda’s motorcycle business aims to provide products that meet the needs of various customers by offering a wide range of products from commuters to FUN models. In addition, Honda is taking on the challenge of developing advanced technologies by adding electric motorcycles and other products to its product lineup to meet the diversifying needs of today’s customers.
Honda sees the development of this V3 engine with an electrical compressor as a new challenge in the area of internal combustion engines, and its goal is to enable customers to further experience the joy of riding and owning a motorcycle. Honda plans to apply the new V3 engine to larger displacement models in the future, and will continue its development toward mass production.
*Honda research
See Cycle World for a good Kevin Cameron analysis of this project.
Interesting layout.
For me, the question to answer is this layout boosting the airbox pressure beat using similar e-motor (hybrid style) on the mainshaft or countershaft to boost torque?
Also, where does the air filter go? Kinda crowded at the steering stem.
You mean add the power used by the tubo to the drive system directly? An electric system that adds ten horsepower would still take up more space and add more weight. Even if it took that same ten horsepower to add as little as.25 bar, about 3.5psi of boost, on a 100hp NA engine it would add 25hp. Or about 15hp net because it would have to make the 10hp worth of electricity to power the turbo. My guess is that 10hp driving a turbo would make more boost that that. Particularly at low RPM. Boost is basically linear. 1 bar of boost (14.7psi) doubles the NA power of an engine. 2 bar triples it.
My guess is that this setup will be used in heavy bikes and be sized to provide the most boost at low RPM and comparatively little at peak RPM. So it wouldn’t add a crazy amount peak power to the bike. But it would pull a lot harder in the RPM range used most often. Providing the illusion of a much larger engine during normal use.
typical honda, coming up with solutions to problems that don’t exist. They have done so heaps of times, oval pistons for example. Why don’t they just give us great suspension, great brakes and light weight?
Looks like they are saving a bunch of money by buying the blower from Revlon.
I was going to talk about the Red hairdryer but you beat me to it.
No one remembers Honda’s V5 MotoGP engine? Maybe this is similar but you know, with 3 cylinders.
No one remembers the NS 400, which was a V3 two stroke.
The v5 wasn’t that long ago so why wouldn’t we remember?
Yep. Valentino Rossi Repsol Honda with fake 5th piston to balance all that V-4
Wonder how it compares (in performance) to a battery electrical package? Electric motors and batteries can do all the torque you need. (tyre shredding?):
OR “soft” hybrids – with small turbos and small engines and a smallish traction battery and electric motor boost of torque to get up to Turbo-effective RPM..- are already available in the small economy car market. A 1l Suzuki Swift does 110 BHP with fast “off-the-line” from the electric motor, so actually 70BHP isn’t a big step in technology. Just a narrower package more suited to a narrower vehicle.
Brilliant idea. Honda is an engineering company first and foremost and seeing how they were able to design and build an oval piston engine decades ago i dont think the issue of getting the needed juice to run an electric supercharger will be a problem.
There’s a lady in Japan searching furiously for her hair dryer right now.
The electric turbo is going to require one heck of and electrical system, including a quick charge/discharge battery and a way to keep it charged up…
The V3 engine layout makes me have interest in such a bike, without the e-turbo.
Almost certainly it will have a supercapacitor for the turbo.
I think this is cool. I’ve wondered ever since the turbo bikes of the early 80s with their turbo lag why someone just didn’t put an electric motor on to spin the turbo. You’d have boost all the time that way. Honda is such a conservative company that it’s nice to see them pushing the envelope for a change.
As someone who actually still owns a CX500TC turbo, I all too often read comments like this, from people who have never ridden a turbocharged motorcycle, complaining about “turbo lag”. its actually an underboost situation, and much like any big bike at low rpm, all those too must have turbo lag, something one cant explain to those who have never ridden one. the other comment “Honda is such a conservative company”, say what? where have you been for your life? Honda has pushed the envelope of every thing, in all genre. I can only shake my head. With out all the information about how this electric powered boost actually works, so many here are so quick to criticize or applaud it, not knowing.
I suspect there was a functional reason turbo bikes never really struck a sales cord, and I have never ridden one, however I have driven a twin turbo Porsche. Turbo lag was not an issue, but the non linear increasing acceleration toward top end caught me by surprise and scared heck out of me. No other vehicle ever affected me that way. Perhaps too much of a great thing just before mechanical destruction ?
The CX, like any 500 back in the day, didn’t have a whole lot of power. But power is not a problem anymore. A current large displacement three cylinder motorcycle engine is going to make more than enough power. Added weight and complexity is just that. You know the thing is going to be ride by wire. So you won’t get full honk if you ask for it anyway.
I suppose if you lived in the mountains and did a lot of high altitude riding you might want a little boost. I know when I ride dirt bike at altitude I find out what first gear is for. But now days you can just buy a bike that makes the amount of power you want at altitude and you’re done. The weird thing about the street bike market is that the really powerful bikes generally aren’t the really heavy ones.
Honda NSR400R was a V3. Honda is forgetting their roots.
Of the bikes I’ve owned over the years the NS400R was my all time favorite.
Ahh, the old leaf blower turbo trick. Think I saw this once on some version of Roadkill!
I’ve seen a couple of people try that and neither of them had any success. I feel however that neither of them really gave it an honest try. Leaf blowers move a large volume of air through a convergent nozzle to give the air a lot of velocity. Both the YouTube geniuses then ran the high velocity air down a fairly long straight manifold to the waiting throttle body. To take an honest whack and getting boost from a leaf lower you would need to build a divergent manifold, effectively making a divergent nozzle. It’s really quite simple. Leaf blowers use convergent nozzles to make high velocity low pressure air. So take that high velocity low pressure air and put it through a divergent nozzle to reduce its velocity and increase its pressure. That’s basically what all the ram air systems in on bikes in the late nineties were doing. The holes at the front of the bike had divergent manifolds behind them to reduce the velocity of the incoming air and increase its pressure.
I’ll bet you’re sorry you brought that up.
You do realize that the “increased pressure”is just bringing it back up from a low pressure (vacuum) to somewhere just above ambient pressure, right?
I’m quite surprised that anyone thought that this is a good idea. I must be way out of touch with the street bike market. What is so “good” about street bikes that are over powered, over weight and over complicated? It’s already to the point where a trip to all the motorcycle shops now generate the same level of disinterest in me as only Harley Davidson used to. And then this thing shows up. Oh! What a wonderful future. It’s like all those 700hp Dodge cars. Gee whiz! You can buy a 700hp car! It might be a big heavy box that ain’t no fun to drive. But boy howdy! That baby has 700hp.
Will be great for dirt sidecar motocross. I am intrigued with an electric ‘compressor’ from the stand point of available boost from idle up. The word boost may be wishful wishing.
It seems to me that it would take quite a bit more power than the bike’s alternator can produce to provide any appreciable boost above a few thousand RPM. Maybe the though is that in normal situations people will never be able to use the boost for more than the several seconds at a time the battery could provide the power.
two 3double e batteries will fit right where the rads on a vtr 1000 sit!
Sold my Ninja 400 regrettably. Actually right now in Lisbon Portugal on a Nautitech 44 open catamaran. This is my new home, sailing. Loved the Ninja with the 370 pound weight and 45 ponies. It was not super fast but easily kept up with traffic. This V3 Honda with the same weight and around 70+ ponies would be a really fun ride. I hope they keep the weight down.
Such slick engineering in a very compact package !
Honda does have experience with a similar V3 layout in their two stroke GP bike of yore.
I also wonder how effective the electrically forced induction will be through the entire rpm range , but since Honda seems to be committed to producing this in several displacements and models I have to believe there’s a notable benefit .
Honda doesn’t play games in terms of their engineering prowess. They’re not called “Big Red” for nothing.
There are going to be a lot of questions about the function of this configuration, starting with advantages, then fuzzy issues. Good for Honda and imagination.
Stunning! This I would buy, if I was buying and wasn’t instead considering tapering-off my bike riding.
Interesting design, about time manufacturers started experimenting with low unit sales. This narrow design means the bike should be very flickable, yet have the power from three cylinders. Blown version should provide decent power. Only remaining question is weight. If Honda can keep the weight around 350 pounds I can see this bike selling like hot cakes from IHOP.
‘ Larger displacement models’ does not mean light, even with unobtanium materials.
I want this.
I’m interested to learn more about this engine and how they’ll solve the balance problems. I’ve read about how they got the RC212’s V5 to balance and it’s ingenious in a uniquely Honda way. Considering the recent trends toward simpler to manufacture P2’s, I would be surprised if this more complicated thing sees production but this is Honda, so who knows?
yea, decisions…decisions:
75-degree triple @ 900cc, no e turbo.
75-degree triple @ 900cc, with e turbo.
75-degree twin @ 900cc.
parallel twin @ 900cc.
questions…questions:
weight? torque? hp? riding experience? new sound? cost to manufacture? fickle moto consumer with new design?